future LANC issue

[lilchief 1]

I spoke with SONY and asked them what camera that provides LANC compatibility on new model. There's only one new model out there right now, the DCR HC96.

Maybe it isn't a real problem and I'm just worrying too much. But I'm concerned about not having cameye/hypeye or similar functions to a camera. For me it's an essential tool to keep my focus on the exit, rather than to worry if my camera is recording or not.. There are still many used cameras out there, but within 3-4 years ther're all gone I assume.

Does anyone know if there will be something similar that may give us the same functionality as a cameye/hypeye?

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[skydog 2]

Mirror on the altimeter..............like back in the days before cam-eye

Journey not destination.....

[lilchief 1]

ah! a standard KISS device then?

Keep it Stupid Simple device

hehe

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[bigway 4]

you would think something would come out for us. maybe this is an opportunity for some skydiving geek to come up with a device to make him/her extra cash.

What about something like a cameye that can power off a usb port or firewire port?

I remember seeing a plane that had a little mirror in it at the door to check your camera was on as you were getting ready to exit. Now though my cookie helmet and d-box cover up that red light so it could really suck without a cameye

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[PhreeZone 20]

Controlling via firewire is a whole lot harder then via LANC since LANC was a protocol deisgned to allow the camera to do stuff like start/stop/zoom/etc. I've heard rumors someone was working on a firewire indicator but haven't heard anything on it recenctly.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[DSE 5]

The A/V port (the one that looks like a letter "D" can be used for control, and a self-powered indicator. The problem is in the language the port uses, which means more electronix. It has a lot of issues compared to LANC, so isn't an easy tweak like LANC is.

[gearless_chris 1]

One of the guys at our DZ bought a new HC36, it has no external red light. You have to look through the viewfinder/viewscreen. A mirror wouldn't work with his FF2. If it had the red light on the front he could just drill a hole in the helmet though.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[skydog 2]

Could always use the Force.........as a Jedi Knight myself I find it works better than any electrogizmo...

Journey not destination.....

[Mickochet 0]

my HDR-hc7 has a lanc.

If you never fall down you aren't trying hard enough.

[stratostar 5]

FUCK THAT! Do it really old school and have someone look so you get the groovie 5 minutes of someone looking and nose hair close ups.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[pilotdave 0]

I do that with my still camera to get good pictures of people. Course there's no light or anything for them to see, but when you ask "is my still camera turned on?" people always look right into the lens.

http://www.skydivingstills.com/keyword/portrait#96288604-A-LB

http://www.skydivingstills.com/keyword/portrait#163635341-A-LB

Kinda creepy.

Dave

[tdog 0]

I know we are a SUPER SMALL segment of Sony's business.

However, this would be a good time for the USPA to write a letter on behalf of their members, or a proactive camera flier to start a petition.

If Sony is getting rid of LANC, it might be too hard to convince them to keep it...

But instead write a spec.

"We desire the ability to have a remote indicator light that indicates recording and standby modes, in addition to a push button switch with the ability to turn on the camera, and cycle between standby and record. Currently we do it with the CamEye switch using the LANC port. Unfortunately, Sony has discontinued the LANC port. We seek alternatives.

This is a desirable feature most skydivers that jump with cameras require. While not statistically significant, our market share is estimated at 5,000 Sony camera purchases a year, and accommodating this technology will guarantee continued near exclusive sales to the skydiving market.

We encourage Sony to visit your local Drop Zone to meet the hard working professional camera fliers that capture the moments of visitor's first skydives, and the weekend warrior fun jumpers who shoot hours of footage in freefall a year of their friends. You will find Sony is the exclusive camera for these activities, and not only that, but freefall photography is a booming sub-market. Footage also can be found on www.skydivingmovies.com."

The trick is to find the right person at Sony to send it to. Someone who is in charge of product development... Now, the next step would be to work with this person to offer a sponsorship program, where they provide posters and/or banners and/or collateral - and the Sony brand starts getting some more skydiving press....

[DSE 5]

Nice idea, but effectively meaningless.
Sony OEM owns LANC. Not Sony Electronics.
Sony OEM decides the price of LANC, not Sony Electronics. If Sony OEM raises the price too high, then Sony Electronics isn't going to license it. And Sony OEM doesn't give a crap about skydiving, marketing, or anything else.
Additionally, LANC (currently) is relegated to tape-based camcorders. Tape-based camcorders are going the way of the round parachute.
I can give you the names of those involved in Japan. They simply don't care. It's less than pennies to them. If you could get skydivers to pre-commit to orders in the 50K unit range...they'd maybe consider it, assuming tape-systems are still on-line. File-based recording is where Sony and Canon (the only two licensees of LANC) are heading. I'm *sure* you'll eventually see other solutions; I've been experimenting and I know others are too. LANC (currently) cannot be licensed to file-based recording systems.
Meanwhile...get used to the idea that once tape is gone, so is LANC.

[tdog 0]

Dude, re-read my post. I never said keep the LANC, I said an alternative. If they have control via other ports, they might help make an accessory.

[jtval 0]

above that I'm not sure I want to use the AV port for a cameye since they get abused. If the AV port eventually gets wornout or broken than you can not get the video to a computer without taking the tape out and using an different camera that WORKS.

My photos

My Videos

[DSE 5]

I did read it your post, but perhaps wasn't clear in how I responded.
~Sony didn't discontinue LANC. You want it, build a tape-based camcorder and license it. Sony OEM will gladly license it to you. Sony Electronics merely stopped licensing it from their brother.
~Consumers don't care about remote over wire. The camcorders that have offered remote over wire using LANC have all been consumer-low end prosumer at best. Z1 and XLH1 are the highest end camcorders offering LANC. In other words, remote control isn't all that important.
~Control over other connectors is possible, but very expensive. Again...Sony doesn't care. Consumers don't care. Consumers get wireless remotes that do as much and more (shot markers, etc) than LANC or control over other sources can offer.
~Sony has always left this to third parties anyway. Always. They don't even build their own LANC controller accessories. Sony Electronics is interested in reducing boutique SKU's, not increasing them.

Re-read my post, and you'll catch that I've already had these conversations with Tanaka, Takeushi, and Kanta, the primary three guys that design and generate marketing most of these small camcorders. I'll have the conversation again in 2 weeks at the CES. They simply don't care. It's not even a minor budget item, let alone one worth considering. We (and other sports that use these functions) just don't matter at any considerable level.
Consumers barely use their wireless systems. There has been talk about getting rid of wireless altogether too. That'll really mess up the underwater housing folks who are already very tweaked about the loss of LANC. You think we have it bad....they make $7500.00 housings that need LANC or other wired remotes. And they're making do with what is upcoming. Just as we will.
Skydivers got by prior to CamEye systems.
Professional cam ops get/got by just fine prior to LANC as well.
The next thing folks'll be up in arms about is the loss of in-camera transitions.

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

above that I'm not sure I want to use the AV port for a cameye since they get abused. If the AV port eventually gets wornout or broken than you can not get the video to a computer without taking the tape out and using an different camera that WORKS.

Or use the firewire port.

Dave

[dragon2 2]

Don't divers use wired remote too? My underwater box for sony trv cameras uses lanc to control the camera from outside the box. Still, probably not a large enough group either...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[jtval 0]

I meant for editing at the dz.
I won't be at mesquite much longer but we have a linear editing board.


I guess they make em but I haven't seen a fire wire to rca cable.

My photos

My Videos

[DSE 5]

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Don't divers use wired remote too? My underwater box for sony trv cameras uses lanc to control the camera from outside the box. Still, probably not a large enough group either...

That was my point. The underwater housing folks are also very tweaked about losing LANC. Sony hasn't listened to them, either, and Sony/Canon both distribute underwater housings made by third party companies. The underwater housing market is monstrous by comparison to the skydiving world.

[x-claim 0]

I have the new sony CX7 and the mirror on the alti does the trick nicely...
I eventually plan on getting a cookie box for it... saving the pennies and if that covers the light then it is nothing that a drill can't fix.
No problems yet.
Keep it simple.

[PharmerPhil 0]

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in addition to a push button switch with the ability to turn on the camera

I haven't seen a sony (or any other camera) that didn't have this. It's called the record button, and it is as easy to learn by feel where it is as it is to learn by feel where a CamEye (or other) is located.

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accommodating this technology will guarantee continued near exclusive sales to the skydiving market.

My guess is that they will have that either way at this point.

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...Sony is the exclusive camera for these activities...
...and the Sony brand starts getting some more skydiving press

Why would their marketing departments want to spend any additional dollars where there is no chance of gaining market share, and where the audience is so miniscule?

I used to work in consumer electronics, most of the time for companies much, much smaller than Sony. And we wouldn't have cared at all about the numbers that the skydiver market represents (certainly not enough to re-tool or add cost to an item). I think we are just lucky that the consumer stuff has worked so well for us for so long.

[stratostar 5]

www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3059970;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread please see my last reply in thread.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[tdog 0]

Quote

Re-read my post, and you'll catch that I've already had these conversations

My point was - not to get Sony to change their bandwagon, but to make their bandwagon work for our destination.

If they want to no longer install lanc.... Then... "Tell us, Sony, how to accomplish this task???"

[davelepka 4]

I think that we can only expect things to get worse in the future.

The last ten years have been the 'golden age' of Mini Dv. When it first came out, it was the top-of-the -line consumer format. Hi8 and VHS-C were still major players, and represented the bulk of the market. Anyone buying MiniDV was spending premium dollars, and expected a premiuim product.

I think the case on my PC-1 was made of magnesium.

That's why the PC line was around, to push the limits of the concept 'mini' DV. Small and feature packed is what the MiniDV buyer valued, and that's what Sony made.

By the grace of god, that's exactly what skydivers needed. Small, high quality cameras that could survive in freefall. We got lucky.

Now that Mini DV has migrated to the mainstream, the average customer values different things. A little bigger than 'as small as possible' is OK. Fewer features is no big deal, the average user would never need them anyway. And price, of course the lower the better.

So the cameras around will reflect that.

The flip side is the new formats. HD and other storage media are the new top-of-the-line. It's not the same as MiniDV, and what most of you are used to as SOP, might not apply to the new stuff.

It was the same with MiniDV a decade ago. Things were new and different, and we found a way to make it work. Now we get to do it all over again.

As far as the Cam Eye problem goes, you don't NEED a Cam Eye. Just turn it on. Make sure you have a good tape, and a good battery, and turn the thing on before you jump. It's easy.