Blahr 0 #1 June 5, 2003 Having just read the thread re: why do you hate pullout I have to ask a question thats burning through my mind. I'm coming back from an 8 year layoff and I have no idea what that thread is talking about :-) Whats a pullout as opposed to a throwout? Whats a pud? whats a floating pud? Why yet another deployment method? Is it better in some way? Sincerely, Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tosca 0 #2 June 5, 2003 On a pull out the pilot chute is inside the main container, on top of the bag. When you want to deploy you pull a pud, which is connected to the closing pin. The container opens and the pilot chute can get out and take air. The pud is located on the bottom of the container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beej 0 #3 June 5, 2003 typing 'boc v pullout" in the search engine will give you a wealth of info. ~s Beej ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #4 June 5, 2003 A PUD is a soft, usually flat handle that lives where your hackey handle would, it's usually velcroed in place under a protector flap of some sort (such that it's not just velcro holding it in place, but flap pressure as well). The PUD attaches to a short lanyard, that has a straight pin on the other end. This pin holds the container closed. On the base of the pilot chute, where the bridle ties in, is a little webbing tab with a grommet through it. The PUD lanyard runs through that grommet. Your main p/c is packed inside the container, simply placed on top of your D-bag then the flaps are closed over it, holding it in place. When you pull the PUD (no pun intended), it unlocks the container. As you continue pulling, the lanyard slides through the grommet until the pin runs into the grommet, at which time your continued pull extracts the pilotchute into the air. Pros: 1) Pilot chute cannot get loose until the container is unlocked, so it's pretty tough to get a p/c in tow. 2) Also reduces horshoes, for the same reason. (since p/c in tow and horsehoe are the two most scary mals I can think of, and this system reduces the odds of having them, I jump this system). 3) If you drop the PUD and can't find it with a hand sweep or two, you only have the 8 or so inches of lanyard and PUD over your back for your reserve to clear past. Cons: 1) If you are very sloppy when you rig the lanyard when you pack, and allow the grommet tab to twist around, it's possible to create a basically impossible pull. 2) Not everyone uses them, so many people are ignorant of how they work...we fear what we don't know. 3) There is some minor maintenance on the PUD Velcro, about every 200 jumps or so. It takes about 10 minutes to replace the velcro strip. That, in a nut shell, is the pullout system.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #5 June 6, 2003 I am buying my first rig and it has a pull out system. I was trained on a BOC throwout system but I want to jump the rig and make my own decision about it. I have had a quote of AU$250 from my rigger to make the canopy BOC throwout so I know that if I am not happy I can get it changed. However I truly believe that, whilst I have asked many people for advice on this, jumping it yourself is the best answer. I think that "because no one else does" is not the most intelectual response (quoted from other post). I would still be interested to hear peoples opinions on my decision however. Blue Ones. CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #6 June 6, 2003 How much is AU$250 in Us dollars?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #7 June 6, 2003 $3.75.... Oops sorry that wasn't nice. I think it's about 1 USD: 2 AU ... ? Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #8 June 6, 2003 Your decision is fine. I jumped throw out for years and when my latest rig was built I switched to pull-out. For skydiving, I'd never go back. (cept for birdman)My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #9 June 6, 2003 Where do the letters PUD come from ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #10 June 6, 2003 I purchased something a couple of months ago down under. The exchange rate then was .61. So about 150.00 USD. -Hixxxdeath,as men call him, ends what they call men -but beauty is more now than dying’s when Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swanee 0 #11 June 6, 2003 I wouldn't bother spending the money to covert it. My second rig has a pull out, and I love it. It's very easy getting the PUD (often called a bunny tail in Oz) and it's a positive feeling, as you are opening the pack directly, yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #12 June 6, 2003 Quote3) There is some minor maintenance on the PUD Velcro, about every 200 jumps or so. It takes about 10 minutes to replace the velcro strip. We stopped using Velcro secured pull out handles about 10 years ago up here. They would get all fuzzy like and fall off( Bunny tails and Dildos). Mine is small, flat with a stiffner inside. It tucks into to tinny pockets, one on each end. ( Matildo?) I have only seen one other style of pull out handle, on a Talon, it was more like a small freefly handle and was secured with a snap and velcro( I think). ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #13 June 6, 2003 It probably also depends on how long the bridle is. I bought a rig with a pullout, and the bridle was only about 5-6 feet long; I could cock the PCby holding the dbag in one hand, the pc in the other and pulling. It's now converted to throwaway, with a much longer bridle.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ERICCONNELLY 0 #14 June 6, 2003 Add one con. If you have a kill line on your PC you can not chect to see if it's cocked with the pack closed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #15 June 6, 2003 QuoteI am buying my first rig and it has a pull out system. I was trained on a BOC throwout system but I want to jump the rig and make my own decision about it. You're totally correct. I jumped a throw-out for several hundred jumps, until someone explained the pullout to me. I asked around, got information (both pro and con) and made my own decision. I trained with it on the ground under the supervision of our DZO (a PUD jumper) and then went and jumped it. I've never looked back. I'm an advocate of the system and I let people know that. BUT I always tell them to go find a few specific people (whom I name for them) who are ardently against pullouts and have them ask those people why they don't like them. I've yet to have anyone serious in the transition be swayed by what they hear from these people. Mostly because their statements consist of the same old arguments: "Those things used to be Black Death" "You might have a floating PUD" "Horseshoes don't happen all that often, so why worry about it?" yadda yadda yadda. I posted a thread entitled "Why do you hate pullouts" and have been very careful not to reply to some of the reasons that have been posted there. I wanted to see if anyone could give me a reason that I felt had merit as to why not to jump a pullout. This was a totally selfish motivation, and I'm sure that many folks out there have seen the post and agree with what was posted there. I don't. IMO, the only reason even close to having a rational backing that has been given as to why not to jump a pullout is that you can't check you're kill-line p/c once the rig is packed. You actually can, you just have to leave the window portion of the bridle out for inspection, but no one does... Because I've always jumped a throw out and so does everyone else, is not, IMO a valid reason not to like the pullout system. It's a reason not to jump one, but not a reason not to like it. Get training, understand your system, go jump. It's that easy. If you don't like a piece of equipment, at least go out and ask questions from both sides of the argument so you've got the info. Don't just be a lemming, be an informed lemming! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #16 June 6, 2003 QuoteOn a pull out the pilot chute is inside the main container, on top of the bag. When you want to deploy you pull a pud, which is connected to the closing pin. The container opens and the pilot chute can get out and take air. The pud is located on the bottom of the container. Why isn't a pull-out PC anchored at the apex, then? What is the advantage to have it anchored at the base??? Wouldn't the pull-out PC anchored at the apex be the best of both worlds??? This would be like a pull-out PC that you can throw-out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,031 #17 June 6, 2003 >What is the advantage to have it anchored at the base??? The PC does not have to rotate 180 degrees to inflate, and thus inflates faster. This is an advantage on pullouts, since you essentially have an open container as soon as you pull the pin. A fast PC inflation is more desireable when your container is already open and the bridle (and bag) are bopping around in the air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metallica 0 #18 June 9, 2003 QuoteOn the base of the pilot chute, where the bridle ties in, is a little webbing tab with a grommet through it. The PUD lanyard runs through that grommet. Hard as I try to imagine, I still don't get it! Can somebody post a pic for this? Speed kills! So does everything else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #19 June 9, 2003 Here you go. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #20 June 10, 2003 In my ongong quest for pullout information I got loads of advice at the DZ yesterday. The most interesting comment was regarding the deployment sequence. With pullout your container is open before your Pilot Chute is inflated. It was explianed that this could lead to further complications - i.e. D-bag coming out of container prior to Pilot chute inflating fully and creating bag lock Incidentally I was also advised strongly by one of the instructors from changing my deployment method to check the rig out with just 50 jumps. The instructor reckoned that nothing would be gained by me from doing this. I have now decided to convert the rig to throwaway. The money is not the object for me particularly and then I will be with a system that I am used to and confident with. Rigger informed. No going back. Stick with what you know and are happy with. CJP CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markbaur 0 #21 June 10, 2003 QuoteWith pullout your container is open before your Pilot Chute is inflated. A lot like your reserve, I suppose. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #22 June 10, 2003 Thankyou!----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #23 June 10, 2003 QuoteA lot like your reserve, I suppose. Except your reserve has a spring loaded pilot chute, as does rip cord for students which makes a big difference. It seems to be an endless argument/discussion on the pros and cons of each. There are about three posts on the topic at the moment... CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metallica 0 #24 June 10, 2003 QuoteYour main p/c is packed inside the container, simply placed on top of your D-bag then the flaps are closed over it, holding it in place. How do you keep the p/c under the flaps? Folded or laid out flat? What about the hackey? Won't you end up having a 'lump' under the flaps? In your other post, you mentioned routing the bridle outside the flaps such that you can view the kill-line window. How do you do it? Thanks for the PUD pic. Now I get it! Speed kills! So does everything else... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #25 June 10, 2003 Chris- The important thing is that you did the research and collected the information, then made a choice based on that information. Good for you! Incidentally, the container being open doesn't mean your bag just blows out and into the wind...unless your gear is way out of spec. anyway. The other objection sometimes made is that the pullout sequence is actually an out of sequence deployment because the container is open before the pilot chute is inflated. Here's the thing: That's only an out of sequence deployment if you define your deployment based on what happens with a throw-out system (ie- p/c inflates, then the container is opened). Anyway, good for you taking the time to research the systems and making your own, informed choice! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
