Free thought thread

[idrankwhat 0]

Hi folks. This thread could go in a number of directions but I guess I'm looking for opinions on camera helmet progression. I'm just now reaching the advised number of jumps to start thinking about flying camera. However I started playing with it about a hundred jumps ago.
To give some background on experience, I came out of the gate pretty strong. Skydiving made a lot of sense, I progressed through the license easily and had some great support after I got the "A" license. I read a lot, asked a lot of questions, I jumped frequently with extremely experienced folks, took canopy flying and camera flying courses when they were offered and jumped regularly. Then I got injured during while participating in a "safe" sport. That knocked me out for the better part of a year after you added in a few bad weekends of bad weather. I've been jumping irregularly for the last few months. Only about 40 over the last six months. But now I'm ready to make up for lost time.

I've been jumping with an Invertigo X and an HC21. I wanted to jump with a camera but I didn't want spend a lot on a rig that I might have to cut away on the first jump. My first priority is safety, the second is not screwing up my subject's dive in any way, shape or form. As a result, I've got some fun rw footage that people always appreciate, and have shot 4-way competition video on a few occasions. Generally I don't have too much trouble getting decent video except that I often, erring on the side of caution, will not tighten up the shot as much as I could.

Not to drag this out any longer, I'm about to buy another helmet. The Invertigo-X is ok but I'd like a more stable platform with greater potential for growth. I plan to jump a whole lot more this coming year. Most of the jumping will be fun jumps shooting RW for friends and the occasional competition. I'll probably set up the helmet for one to two video cameras (the latter for competitive jumps) and then start playing with stills after I gain more familiarity with the setup. I'll be buying from Bonehead composites and was initially going to go with the FTP. The real estate, the ability to change top plates, the rear entry/fixed chin cup and most importantly, the (as I see it) fewer snag opportunities of the design point me in that direction. The FTN seems like a nice idea but it seems limiting. The Mantle had me a bit excited but then the price came in at the same as the FTN. What I'm wrestling with is this: should I get the optic illusion which will be similar to what I've been jumping and save the difference to throw at mounts, cameras, connections etc? Or should I just suck it up and get the FTP? How much differently do the helmets fly? I'm ok with the idea of putting another few hundred jumps on an OI and then stepping up but is there any reason to? What would be the drawbacks of going FTP?

Any input whatsoever would be welcome.

[jimmytavino 16]

it's refreshing to read about jumper who "got it" right away, and progressed at a great pace, in short time.
we all see that , once in a while at the dropzone... Were you jumping with the camera before you got hurt elsewhere???

if so, that would be important. if your profile numbers are correct, then it speaks well to your DZO, instructors, mentors, and yourself, that you were safely flying video, at that point...

Heck,, I never had a camera Flying seminar !!
so well done.

it's been tough to keep up with the improvements and growth in the camera specific helmets, which are currently available..
Great styles, great safety, great comfort. Do your homework and try to see and hold in your hands...a sample of anything you might consider buying...

I am partial to top mount for w/b issues and
side by side cameras,, work ok for me.
Top mount Nikon D70S over my right eye, Sony
HDR-HC3 on my left, cameye for indicator purposes only. camera controls operated by hand, at the camera,,, Still switch is Laszlo adapter and Sonic's pro-shop tongue switch.
the top plate is wide enough so that NO part of either camera extends past it.
I use a Bonehead BatRak, which i bought second hand about 4 or 5 years ago.
The BatRak is nice because the "ears" are hollow and allow for the room needed to stash the cam-eye switch, excess wire length, and the still camera adapter connection.
I bought it second hand from M McGowan...
( i feel like George Costanza when he Bought "Jon Voights' Chrysler Le Baron" )
hahaha

I've never used a sidemount, but i did have a canon 35mm still ,,, on my forehead for a while...It was a bit tooo much cantilever effect, and so i scrapped the idea...
well,, continued recovery jump when you can .

good thread.


jmy

a3914
nscr 1817

[BMFin 0]

Well IMO:

-Optik illusion or similar, if you plan to fly inside freefly with the camera(s).

-FTP in case you´ll be only flying outside camera

IMO the optik illusion (or a similar design) is more versitale in a way that allows you to do both.

FTP IMO wont be so comfortable for inside freefly or any inside flying but, has more real estate to mount a flash next to the cameras plus some other extras you might want to add..

Also a possibility to keep the invertigo for inside fun stuff, and get a FTP for serious outside camera jumps..

[sinjin 0]

bmfin has hit most of the points and i will add a big weight difference also. i started with the optic and just switched to the ftp.. the ftp is noticeably heavier so take that into account when choosing. i notice i feel the flat surface on the top on head down jumps with the ftp but you get used to it.. i switched to the ftp for real estate as i bought a flash and use it occasionally. enjoy and welcome to the club

dont let life pass you by

[idrankwhat 0]

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Were you jumping with the camera before you got hurt elsewhere???

Yea, soccer's only a safe sport if you're under 40 apparently.
The first game back from the layoff left me with a pulled groin muscle. I'm sticking with skydiving from now on.

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if so, that would be important. if your profile numbers are correct, then it speaks well to your DZO, instructors, mentors, and yourself, that you were safely flying video, at that point...

Some were "flying video". Many more were simply jumping with a camera. "Aviate-Navigate-Communicate" seems to apply to universally. That aside, I simply cannot explain how fantastic the folks at the DZ are. The amount of information and instruction available simply for the asking is fantastic. Egos are in check, fun and safety are the priority. The instructors are top notch and the videographers are well experienced and always happy to let me question them and check out their gear. I'd say they should charge for it but they might be reading this. On top of that, the regular fun jumpers are always grabbing new license holders and helping them transition to RW. It's not uncommon to have someone with 30 jumps doing a four way with a combined experience of 20,000 jumps. It's a great group of folks to say the least.

Quote

I am partial to top mount for w/b issues and
side by side cameras,, work ok for me.
Top mount Nikon D70S over my right eye, Sony
HDR-HC3 on my left, cameye for indicator purposes only. camera controls operated by hand, at the camera,,, Still switch is Laszlo adapter and Sonic's pro-shop tongue switch.
the top plate is wide enough so that NO part of either camera extends past it.
I use a Bonehead BatRak, which i bought second hand about 4 or 5 years ago.
The BatRak is nice because the "ears" are hollow and allow for the room needed to stash the cam-eye switch, excess wire length, and the still camera adapter connection.
I bought it second hand from M McGowan...
( i feel like George Costanza when he Bought "Jon Voights' Chrysler Le Baron" )
hahaha

I've never used a sidemount, but i did have a canon 35mm still ,,, on my forehead for a while...It was a bit tooo much cantilever effect, and so i scrapped the idea...
well,, continued recovery jump when you can .

good thread.


jmy

a3914
nscr 1817

I like the idea of having everything on top for weight distribution as well as riser clearance. I lost a battery to a riser strike during an intentional cutaway and frankly, I've got enough footage of my left three ring assembly to last me a lifetime! Also, my lanc port is now unreliable and I'd like the next setup to be more connection friendly than the sidemount setup that I have now.
Thanks for the input!

[idrankwhat 0]

I hadn't thought about tunnel flying but that's not as much of a concern. Something to think about though. I think you're right about the Invertigo-X option.

The OI seems like a great helmet with great price. That's one plus. The second is that it seems to provide better visibility than the FTP. I don't know that for certain though. The third would be that it will be less of a "rudder" than the FTP. The mantle seemed like the best compromise and the thread posted here on that helmet really piqued my interest. Unfortunately it came in at about a hundred bucks more than I was anticipating. Still haven't ruled it out though. But with only about $50 difference in price, I keep thinking, "why not go FTP"?

[BMFin 0]

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I hadn't thought about tunnel flying but that's not as much of a concern. Something to think about though. I think you're right about the Invertigo-X option.

I see you must have misunderstood my phrase "inside flying".

With that phrase I dont mean tunnel flying, I mean anytype of multiwayskydiving where the main funtion of the freefall is not to capture video and/or shoot stills. The main funtion is to participate on the way as anyother flier, merely capturing what is there to capture..

Outside flying on the other hand means that your main purpose is to capture video and / stills. Outside flier wont normally take part on the way it salf. His job is to fly where he feels he can get the best shot outside the group.

[idrankwhat 0]

Gotcha. I did indeed. I'm not going to be flying a camera in a tunnel any time soon anyway (that's an understatement)! I've done some inside flying to capture the perspective but I could use a wider angle lens. Maybe that's another plus for the OI. More money to spend on lenses.

[LouDiamond 1]

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What I'm wrestling with is this: should I get the optic illusion which will be similar to what I've been jumping and save the difference to throw at mounts, cameras, connections etc? Or should I just suck it up and get the FTP? How much differently do the helmets fly?

Based on what you say you will use the helmet for and that you want to top mount your gear, the OI is not your best choice as it has the smallest top platform space out of all the choices you mentioned. Both the FTP and FTN would be overkill for what you stated your intended use will be, which is fun jumps with friends, mostly inside,etc.

The range of head movement that you have with the FTP/FTN is more restrictive than the Mantle and the OI and IMO, would not be your best choice. The reason the Mantle was made was because I needed a helmet that had the space of a FTP/FTN with the mobility and comfort of the OI without the weight or bulk. The newest version of the Mantle is rear entry for when you do have a heavy load up top but it can also be flown without any cameras on it and it feels similar to a regular skydiving helmet. I own all of the helmets you mentioned and from your posts, it sounds like the Mantle is what you're looking for and will be happiest with, not the OI or the FTP/FTN. Hope that helps you with making your decision.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[idrankwhat 0]

Hmm....do I detect a wee bias perhaps
But you do make some good points. Visibility and mobility are valuable commodities at my level.
Let me go back and revisit your earlier thread and your photos. I may be leaning. The biggest downside I saw to the mantle was the lack of a changeable top plate. If I go that route I need to get the mounts right the first time. I'm looking at one to two video cameras to start, with the ability to easily add the still later. Thanks for the help.

[LouDiamond 1]

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Hmm....do I detect a wee bias perhaps

No, if I thought any of the other choices were better for your application I would say so. I stand to gain nothing no matter which model you choose. I just don't want to see anyone spend their money on something that doesn't suit their needs.

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The biggest downside I saw to the mantle was the lack of a changeable top plate.

If for some reason you end up with swiss cheese on the top of the Mantle you can always cut a replacement top to fit it and attach it on top of the existing plate. Not as slick as sliding a new top in but still an option if you happen to have a bout of muscle twitches while you are drilling your mount holes.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[idrankwhat 0]

I might have to pull the trigger on the Mantle. The rear entry/solid chin is a big improvement. It also seems like camera sighting would certainly be easier than with a still on top and a side mount video. There's more room up there than I remembered from the other thread. Not sure there's enough for a flash but I'm probably thinking too far ahead for my current needs. If I decide to go with it I might have to pimp it out with the "Princess Leia" custom paint job