Old topic, new CONTEST

[DSE 5]

As we've seen many new camera flyers join the sky this year, and as the vets have watched them...
What sorts of safety issues have you seen?

What sorts of safety problems have you resolved?


When flying with tandems, what are your top three "Do's and Don'ts?"

In a way...this is a test. There will be a reward at the end of the process.

[PharmerPhil 0]

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When flying with tandems, what are your top three "Do's and Don'ts?"

Well, these are just off the top of my head (I may add more later). And they are not necessarily safety related. But here goes:

DO keep in mind (and keep the attention on) the person who is paying for the video. Hint: it is not the tandem instructor or the videographer.

DO have a good relationship with, a good routine with, and good trust in, your tandem instructor(s).

DON'T get complacent, jaded, bored, or otherwise unmotivated by your work. It is still the customers' first skydive, and one of the most memorable moments in their lives.

P.S. Sounds like a Camera Corner topic to me...

[davelepka 4]

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What sorts of safety issues have you seen?

The one thing that bugs me is exit timing. I've seen it happen in person, and seen it show up in internet videos, but the newbie camera guy will either miss the count, or just wait too long, and end up exiting at the same time as the tandem, directly downwind of the tandem pair, a.k.a. exactly where the drouge is about to go.

I've mentioned this to a few guys in person, and maybe posted it at some point, but it's important to understand that there is a window of time you have to get off the plane before the tandem (a leading exit). Once you miss this window, you need to just hang on, let them go by, and follow them off of the plane (a trailing exit). If you leave at the same time, you wil be in the mushy air of their burble, and about to get a drouge tossed at your face.

It's not easy to hang on and let them go by, but that what needs to happen. Maybe you can hop off next to them, and side slide your way out from behind them, then backslide and sink back down into your slot. It could happen.

But you could also loose the air to one wing, and have no power going sideways. You could end up stuck back there because the TM just had his most stable and square exit ever. He just might want to fire the drouge right then and there. Who knows?

Either way, that's not a chance you should be taking. You get a shot at the sweet leading exit shot on every jump. Sometimes you blow it, and when you do, man up and hang on. When you let them go by, you let the chance that you get popped with the drouge go by.

[PhreeZone 20]

My personal top 3's:

Top 3 do's -

Frame the customer in the center no matter what.
Deliver the best product I can since it is a LOT of money that someone is paying for the video
Do have fun on every jump and make sure the customer is having fun also.

Top 3 don'ts-
Don't deliver the customer a product that would ever embarrass them later when watching it (no profanity, no inappropriate actions, etc)
Don't give the customer anything other then what they want. (Don't give them a video consisting more of their friends then themselves unless they want that)
Don't forget this is to be fun and put that energy into the video!

I was lucky that most the people I knew that started flying video this year did it the right way and took the time to listen to input so the only safety issues were those that would have been seen even if they didn't have camera gear such as poor canopy patterns and similar.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

I've mentioned this to a few guys in person, and maybe posted it at some point, but it's important to understand that there is a window of time you have to get off the plane before the tandem (a leading exit). Once you miss this window, you need to just hang on, let them go by, and follow them off of the plane (a trailing exit). If you leave at the same time, you wil be in the mushy air of their burble, and about to get a drouge tossed at your face.

I totally disagree (see? I told you aI would add more later). My best exit shots are when I leave EXACTLY at the same time as the tandem. The simple part of it is that you just have to be in a different relative wind than the tandem. For example, if rear floating, jump further away or lower down than the tandem. Personally, when I do a rear float, on exit I leap far out and forward of the tandem looking back at the passenger. The trick is to not just fall off the plane, but to plan and find a spot in the slip-stream where you can be close to, but not in the same relative wind as, the tandem pair.

Think of good 4-way teams or RW jumps with an 8-way base chunking out of the plane. They ALL leave at exactly the dame time. They just make sure they leave in such a way that they all get their own "air." Every time I see tandem videographers leave early or late, the footage isn't nearly as good as a good videographer who leaves right with the tandem.

[davelepka 4]

Great, thanks for sharing how you with 3000 jumps flies a camera in a thread designed for new camera flyers. That's helpful.

I agreee, you need to leave very close to when the tandem leaves, and hopping off just before them is the SAFE way to stay tight, but also be clear of the drouge. If you back that up with a mental plan to sit tight if the count gets past you, you go into camera flying with a solid, safe exit plan.

Let's remember that how you or I fly a tandem video is not the same way the new guys should approach things. There will be areas where an experienced guy can put a good number of things on 'auto pilot' and really focus on some of the trickier areas of camera flying. You can't count on the new guy to be able to do this.

For the new guys - Take a conservative approach to the exit and opening shots. Yes, there are some great angles out there, but you need to approach them slowly. Once the drouge is out pay attention to your framing and lighting. If you can do a really great job following a conservative plan, you will produce a great product everyone will be proud of.

As for all the cover shots you see in the magazines, and the shit-hot disco flying you see all over youtube, take your time and you'll get there.

[VideoFly 0]

I agree with Phil. I leave with the tandem at the same time and fall at the same rate. The people watching the video get the feeling that they are in the jump instead of just watching it. This exit has worked well for me and I hear lots of ooohs and aaahs when people watch the videos. On the other hand, I have had several instructors leave without a count, and on those rare occasions, I certainly wait on the plane for the drogue release and then float down in front of the jumpers. It looks pretty cool too.

My top 3 do’s:
Help make the student feel special and totally cool.
Keep the student dead-center and close.
Get good shots from below and some from slightly above, showing the ground beneath them.

Don’ts:
Don’t touch the instructor.
Don’t scare anyone.
Don’t fly into a trap-door.

Problems I’ve seen with new video flyers:
Adding too many variables to a jump at once and becoming distracted.
Pulling low.
Thinking the jump is all about them.

[BMFin 0]

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Don’t touch the instructor.

May I ask why is this ?

btw. it seems this turned into a tandem camera flying thread instead of camera flying thread.

[jimmytavino 16]

do.....


prepare your cameras ( batteries Tapes lenses cam eye etc, ) well ahead of time...use a checklist approach, to gearing up, and donning the camerahelmet...

be sane , sober, and considerate of colleagues AND customers

learn and USE the name of the tandem student, as you become part of the team,,,,, which will document what could be, the most exciting thing,, that person has done , in a looong time.

Don't........

be late to the boarding area,,,
be a smart ass,,, or wise-guy,, cracking rude jokes,, using sarcasm, or ANY sort of innuendo or fearmongering.. ( save THAT for the 4 way team )
put yourself or ANY part of the team ,. or Anyone on the lift,,,, in jeopardy...by your positioning, or desire to "get creative"...

many more... but Spot only asked for three...


jmy
A3914
D12122

[DSE 5]

If you want to make another post which can be later referenced as a separate link, by all means, feel free.
Consider this a "contest" of sorts, there will be a community-chosen winner, and there will be a prize.

[piahenzi 0]

After 200 vids as a rookie this year, here are the main points for me, leaving out the obvious camera issues etc etc. These are secondary, IMO, to:

..DO engage the student. You have the privilege to be there on one of their most exciting adventures in a lifetime. They will remember you for a long time and it might just be because of you they become jumpers for the long run.

..DO check that their goggles are tight/on if the TM has missed that part in the plane. Be reassuring if they are nervous. Key into their mood and work with it if the TM happens to be less than interested.

..DO instill confidence and fun. No matter how they did on the jump, be there for the landing and make them feel like a rock-star. Smile during the skydive, it gets them to smile and makes for better video.

...DON'T get anywhere near that drogue. Work the exits safely with each TM. Every TM has a different count or none at all. Learn them, memorize them, and if late, so be it, but see sentence one.

...DON'T get complacent about your gear checks... safety first, cameras second...

...DON'T bring a bad attitude to the day. If the TM isn't feeling it, it's up to you to make it happen for the student.

Edited to add: I definitely see female videographers bringing a softer side to it all. Product is product and the quality of the jumping/flying and editing has to be there but watching the other chicks at the Ranch and analyzing myself, it does seem we have a slightly different approach to the student from the male videographers...not a criticism but rather an observation.

[VideoFly 0]

Not touching the instructor might be a personal thing, but mostly I don’t do it because the instructors I work with most have asked the videographers not to. Some camera flyers enjoy spinning a tandem pair while flying. In that case the TI’s ask that they grab the student’s hand, not theirs. I don’t spin tandems because without a wide angle lens, which is how I prefer to shoot, the angle is awkward and at that close range, the background is mostly obscured anyway. I believe that camera flyers should be somewhat stealthy and that other flyers should not have to worry about where we are.

From a safety point of view, I don’t touch instructors because:
1- Instructors need a full awareness of what’s touching them and it’s best that any odd feelings can be attributed to a student’s body part or equipment possibly out of place.
2- I do not want to interfere with any gear operation.
3- In the event of a problem on a student jump I do not want to be responsible for or implicated as being responsible for a mishap or worse. By touching an instructor, I become part of a student jump and I do not have an instructor rating. Therefore, I believe I am prohibited from touching students.

I guess my procedures are rooted within what I consider safe procedures. Maybe not for other camera flyers, but definitely for me.

Also, I think this thread may be largely focused on tandem videos because part of the original question was "When flying with tandems, what are your top three "Do's and Don'ts?"

[kefran 0]

after my second completed season as a video flyer :

top do's :

be there for the customer and not for your friends at the DZ, you're hired by a person who pays big bucks for that !

always get ready, a 25 minutes call can suddenly become a 5 minutes call

always be ready to relay on the TM when he needs it (ie : checking his gear, concentrating in the plane ...)

when exiting : always check where you are ... you'll have to be back at the landing zone to film the landing

top don't :

never exit right over the Tandem .... if you've missed the countdown let them go and then dive the hell out (this can give very good shots too)

center your subject : the customer and not the TM

your customer paid to have a movie of him, not to look at your cool freeflying moves (by the way he'll just think that you are loosing control ...)

don't let your customer alone on the LZ once the cam is OFF ... get him back to the manifest or at least to a safe zone

--------------------------------------------------
I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution !

[DSE 5]

keep em' coming, guys....
A few more, we'll have a vote for the winning set of suggestions.

[jimoke 0]

Check your ego at the door.
no matter how good of a flyer you "think" you are.
Stay Safe,
JimOke

The ground always, remembers where you are!

[jimmytavino 16]

ok DSE... as per your request..


DOs...

Do smile when you're gearing upDo smile whenever you're interacting with the student and/ or the TM
Do smile when you hand your work to the 'newest skydiver'.....


DONTs

Don't frown
Don't be negative
Don't EVER appear to be Annoyed.... ( even if you have a GOOD reason to be )


jimmy

[PhreeZone 20]

For non Tandem jumps:

Top 3 Do's:

1) Attend the dirt dive so you know what is about to happen. You have a slot to fly that is just as important as anyone elses.
2) Inspect your groups gear in the plane so you can avoid issues in freefall. Scan it in freefall also in case a new issue arises. A quick scan might reveal open flaps or excess bridle hanging out.
3) Count canopies after opening to make sure no one had a malfunction, if someone did go assist them by either tracking the gear or landing with them if they are going to be landing out.

Top 3 Don'ts

1) Don't do anything unexpected on the dive with out briefing the jumpers or at least discussing it. Getting an on level shot at break off and having them track by might be a cool shot but can be dangerous if they do not know you are going to be there.
2) Do not let the group talk you into anything that you feel uncomfortable with. For example if you are just learning to freefly don't let them talk you into flying camera on a hybrid that is going to be all over the map in its freefall speeds.
3) Don't add too many things at once.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[VideoFly 0]

On RW jumps:
DO be part of the dirt dive from exit until deployment and let everyone know where you will be during the jump.
DO assess everyone’s canopy size and type along with their flying skills and style before exiting the plane and plan where you expect to be in the landing pattern.
DO line up your shots during the dirt dive keeping line of flight, consistent heading, and who needs to be facing the camera during the jump (ie. someone’s 100th jump or birthday, etc…).

DON’T fall into a burble and funnel the jump.
DON’T break from the plan unless there is a safety issue.
DON’T fly in and take someone’s slot because they didn’t make it in yet.

[keithbar 1]

DON’T fly in and take someone’s slot because they didn’t make it in yet.

[BirdWoman 0]

OK, I'll bite.

DO:
-take your time learning (i.e. don't get in over your head by filming a jump you can't handle)
-always put safety before "the shot" (don't rush to the plane, be prepared, never complacent)
-ask for help, advice or suggestions

DON'T:
-think you know everything, because there is ALWAYS somebody who knows something you don't
-disobey the break-off altitude or bust your own hard deck for "the shot"
-do anything stupid, like hurting yourself or anybody else (and this counts for both freefall and under canopy, because we all know that some of the most amazing footage has come from canopy flight)

"I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me

[VideoFly 0]

If the jumper fell out and tracked away and you had planned to be an alternate, that might be fine. Personally, when someone goes low, I prefer that they stay in their slot, albeit low, and track at breakoff. This helps to avoid the mystery of where they are. I hate it when I’m filming and people disappear from my line of sight. I don’t know if the are safely away or if they are above or behind me. Also, I would hate to take someone’s slot and lose the video only for them to regain altitude and try to return to their slot. I don’t like to consider a low jumper out of the jump because he/she may get back in. In that case, you have lost the video and cheated that jumper out of their jump.
As I have said before, my Do’s and Don’ts are a personal thing that I stick to. I have little problem with others doing as they like as long as safety is not compromised.

[BirdWoman 0]

Since my last post was for video flying in general and not for tandems (like DSE asked for), here are some of mine for tandems. We haven't had any new vidiots at my dz this year but here are some points to bring up (for tandem flying):

DO:
---communicate with the instructor about the spot, pull altitude, clouds, etc. You both need to be on the same page about whether or not to do a go-around to account for winds, clouds, etc. It is also nice to know what canopy they have and make sure they know what yours looks like, especially if it's a new instructor you haven't jumped with before. This also applies to docking, orbits, etc.
---be prepared for anything. have an extra battery (video and stills), memory card and sometimes a tape in your pocket at all times. It sucks getting down and telling your tandem that there are no stills because you forgot your memory card in your card reader. And you also never know when you will be put on a back-to-back when you are low on tape or battery.
---Accomodate your customer as much as possible. Don't get frustrated by their wants and requests. Talk to them about music for their video so you at least have an idea of what they like. Brief them on what to do with you in freefall, like "don't look at the ground, look at me. Play with me...peace signs, blow me kisses, thumbs up, etc. the more fun you have with me, the better your video will be."

DON'T
---neglect your gear. In other words, keep your cameras clean, have lens filters to protect the glass, and check it before every jump. Check to make sure there aren't any smudges or spots on the lens before jump run.
---get complacent. Have a pre-jump routine you do on every jump regardless of shooting tandem, aff, 4way, etc. Battery life, tape length, free space on memory card, everything sighted in properly, no backlight on the video, zoom set where it needs to be, still camera settings, etc. Leg straps tight, chest strap properly routed, handles in place, etc.
---get pressured into jumping. If you don't like the conditions, ask yourself the following question: "is making $xx worth getting hurt or loosing my gear?" All too often jumping staff get caught in the money aspect of it, and jump in conditions they wouldn't do a fun jump in. Sometimes it's not worth getting paid $40 to risk not being able to jump tomorrow.

There. My top 3 do's and don't with tandem videos. Lengthy I know, but sometimes it helps to explain it all.

"I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me

[keithbar 1]

yeah I agree it's alot better to never give up till break off. I talked to the guy who was out after the jump about that very thing. but I swear that shoelace of shawn's was calling my name. I couldn't help myself.

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[VideoFly 0]

Did you at least tie his shoe before breakoff? What's with these guys whose shoes are always untied when jumping? Were they the kids at school who always had their shoes untied? Maybe it’s time for them to get velcro shoes…but that’s another thread.

[keithbar 1]

I have a hog roast boogie video from up in bardstown ky. years ago where trevor ties his high top chuck taylor in f/f and then busts some sit fly moves. it's sweet.

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .