Stuck on PLFs: How to Retrain the Brain?

[jumpgump 0]

Background:
I'm a former Army military static line jumper (1985-1996). One thing that is still fresh in my mind as it was in my active duty Army years was doing PLFs with those old T-10s and -1Bs rounds pounding into the ground upon landing with gear day or night. PLF training and practice was pounded into all of our minds not only for safety but also because of the mission and obeying orders. Doing PLFs sometimes by the hundreds in training from elevated positions was the norm. Needless to say, I can do military style PLFs very well. There was never even the thought of standing up on a landing. It was an impossible thought. Any who dared to try it was given an Article 15 summary court martial. I saw enough serious injuries even when PLFs were performed correctly. Thankfully, I walked away from every military jump I did. Others didn't fare so well.

Current:
I've obtained my A license in my somewhat old age. It's definitely a new world in sport skydiving with these RAM canopies. During student training all of my landings were done PLF. I didn't even attempt to do a stand-up. I didn't want to...didn't want to even try it (as stated above). I still don't, but I know that I must/should. I barely squeaked out a partial stand-up to get my license. My coach gave it to me because I could PLF so well.

Trying to retrain the brain to not automatically go into PLF when coming into contact with the ground is proving difficult. I need to learn this mental re-training from an automatic-PLF to stand up. I have my own rig now and the last thing I want to do is tear up the container doing PLFs on every landing. My rig was very expensive to be out there slamming into the ground.

I'm guessing there may be some other former military jumpers like myself or other jumpers with a similar background with sport rounds back in the day here who had the same problem. Will this just come in time with more practice or something else or both? Thanks!

[riggerrob 643]

Find a flight of stairs with grass at the bottom.
Pretend that you are only a few dozen feet about the dropzone. Walk down the stairs while flaring with your arms. Talk your way through the process.
Ask an instructor to critique your first dozen practices. Then practice on your own. Before you go up for your next jump, ask the same instructor to critique your last practice.

Since military PLFs are so deeply ingrained you may need hundreds of practices to learn new landing techniques. Walking down stairs is less expensive than walking out an airplane door.

[wmw999 2,439]

You will learn. You will probably always pot more readily than others. I do. But remember your gear is there to protect you, and not the other way around.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[councilman24 37]

I don't have much more advice to break the habit. But that ingrained PLF, that I have from sport landings under the same canopies, will save your ass when others will be crippled. If landing looks sketchy drop into a PLF and save getting hurt.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Phil1111 1,149]

riggerrob

Since military PLFs are so deeply ingrained you may need hundreds of practices to learn new landing techniques. Walking down stairs is less expensive than walking out an airplane door.

It will come it just takes time to unlearn an ingrained and conditioned response.

[CrashProne 4]

I'm a relative newbie, but I can tell you what helped me start standing up my landings early on.

Under canopy, make sure you're loosening your chest strap, I loosen mine as far as I can. Practice leaning forward in your harness with your legs bent and underneath you instead of extended and out front. Think about being in a good athletic position to start running, almost as if in the starting blocks. This position and mindset will leave you ready to stand up, walk or run out your landing, or to transition to PLF if needed.

Happy landings!!!

[unkulunkulu 0]

Hi. Although you have good intentions and are trying to help your fellow jumper, it may be quite dangerous to give such instruction via internet as well as in person. For example you never mention when to undo the chest strap, before or after unstowing toggles and if before then what is the plan in case of stuck toggle or other problems when unstowing toggles in case you have to cutaway. I heard that rehearsing leaning forward at altitude might be dangerous too if done incorrectly. Performance instruction is best left to instructors and often the best advice is "talk about this with your instructor". Or at least leave disclaimers such as "make sure to ask your instructor how to actually do it".

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Well, here is my $0.02. Worth that much...

Maybe.

How did you get the PLF so deeply ingrained in your brain?

Repetitive practice, right? Jumping off of platforms, some of them pretty high, doing PLFs to break the fall. I'm guessing that the higher platforms required a PLF to prevent injury.

So 'retrain the brain.'

Find a fairly low platform, maybe 2 or 3 feet. Get a running start, jump off the platform and stay running when you hit the ground.

Just for grins, say "I'm going to run this one out", then do that. On another run say "I'm going to PLF this one" and do that.

Do that enough times that you don't automatically go for the PLF. Although, as noted, having a really good PLF in your 'toolbox' can save your ass on occasion.

Then try a jump. See what happens.

As always, not an instructor, didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, no warranties express or implied, use at own risk, contains flammable gas under pressure.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[CrashProne 4]

unkulunkulu

Hi. Although you have good intentions and are trying to help your fellow jumper, it may be quite dangerous to give such instruction via internet as well as in person. For example you never mention when to undo the chest strap, before or after unstowing toggles and if before then what is the plan in case of stuck toggle or other problems when unstowing toggles in case you have to cutaway. I heard that rehearsing leaning forward at altitude might be dangerous too if done incorrectly. Performance instruction is best left to instructors and often the best advice is "talk about this with your instructor". Or at least leave disclaimers such as "make sure to ask your instructor how to actually do it".

Uh, important to note that I said "loosen" the chest strap, not "undo" the chest strap.

I will agree though, please add disclaimer "please discuss this with your local trusted instructor before you go try it yourself".

[unkulunkulu 0]

CrashProne

Uh, important to note that I said "loosen" the chest strap, not "undo" the chest strap.

Oh snap, my bad that's me being sloppy with language. Completely undoing the chest strap is of course a bag idea.

[zoobrothertom 5]

I'm former Airborne as well.

Knowing how to PLF has allowed me to walk away only slightly bruised from landings that would have left my friends with broken arms and legs.

The advice about running/stepping off a low enough platform to PLF or run it out sounded like the best solution.

Best of luck!

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[brenthutch 441]

Have someone dress up in BDUs, put on a black baseball hat with a gold SSG insignia on the front. During your next jump he will yell at you not to do a PLF through a loudspeaker as you descend. If you still perform a PLF have him run up to you and yell "AIRBORNE!!!, next time you fail to perform a proper stand up landing, I will rip off your f**king arm and shove it up you ass!!!!"
You will be cured in about five jumps.

[dthames 0]

wolfriverjoe

Well, here is my $0.02. Worth that much...

Maybe.

How did you get the PLF so deeply ingrained in your brain?

Repetitive practice, right? Jumping off of platforms, some of them pretty high, doing PLFs to break the fall. I'm guessing that the higher platforms required a PLF to prevent injury.

So 'retrain the brain.'

Find a fairly low platform, maybe 2 or 3 feet. Get a running start, jump off the platform and stay running when you hit the ground.

Just for grins, say "I'm going to run this one out", then do that. On another run say "I'm going to PLF this one" and do that.

Do that enough times that you don't automatically go for the PLF. Although, as noted, having a really good PLF in your 'toolbox' can save your ass on occasion.

Then try a jump. See what happens.

As always, not an instructor, didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, no warranties express or implied, use at own risk, contains flammable gas under pressure.

I was thinking this as well....practice landing on your feet, somehow.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[jumpgump 0]

brenthutch

Have someone dress up in BDUs, put on a black baseball hat with a gold SSG insignia on the front. During your next jump he will yell at you not to do a PLF through a loudspeaker as you descend. If you still perform a PLF have him run up to you and yell "AIRBORNE!!!, next time you fail to perform a proper stand up landing, I will rip off your f**king arm and shove it up you ass!!!!"
You will be cured in about five jumps.

Yeah, I think that would do it and not take five jumps!

[photognat 0]

Find a decent size swing, get yourself going a bit and then jump off it. You can vary the jump angle to have more vertical or horizontal speed. Then add some off axis rotation to practice not tripping over your feet.

[Baksteen 84]

jumpgump

Trying to retrain the brain to not automatically go into PLF when coming into contact with the ground is proving difficult. I need to learn this mental re-training from an automatic-PLF to stand up. I have my own rig now and the last thing I want to do is tear up the container doing PLFs on every landing. My rig was very expensive to be out there slamming into the ground.

You "must" nothing.
[rant]
I've said it before and probably will say it many, many times again: Stand-up landings are one of the most overrated things in skydiving. I've heard the phrase "But you stood it up, so it was a good landing" way too often. If doing a PLF every time is what it takes to land comfortably/safely, then by all means, PLF - and tell those who give you crap about it to go f*ck themselves.

As to getting mud/damage on your container: Mending or cleaning a container is way cheaper than mending a femur.
[/rant]

If you really want to work on this, perhaps take a canopy course and/or have someone video your landings and debrief them with an instructor.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom