PharmerPhil 0 #251 March 2, 2009 QuoteWith the old PC series cameras, I thought the steadyshot (EIS I think) helped considerably. Ditto. Same for the HC-5 and TRV EIS models. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #252 March 2, 2009 >With the old PC series cameras, I thought the steadyshot (EIS I think) helped considerably. With the HC1 that was true as well. (EIS also) >With my cx100 I've noticed some annoying effects when panning (HD format / >steadyshot on). The frame seems to jump - kind of like it keeps sticking. What you may be seeing are encoding artifacts. Previous HD codecs would use several types of frames - I,P and B- when recording video. The I frames were independent, and contained all the information needed to reconstruct that frame of video. The P frame was a predictive frame, and did not encode the information in the new frame. Instead, it would encode just the differences between the previous frame and the current frame. The B frame was another kind of predictive frame. In effect, the system would take a picture and say "this is exactly what the scene looks like" then take another picture and say "OK, the whole scene moved two pixels left, so here are the two new rows of pixels; for the rest of the frame just use the last frame shifted over by two." The second frame requires far less data to encode because all you are sending are the two new rows of pixels and some instructions on how to reconstruct the rest. An 'ideal' recording would use all I frames, but this exceeds the bandwidth of many recording devices (DV tape etc.) So often the video will be a few I frames with a lot of P and B frames mixed in; this reduces average data rate to something the recording device can handle. The problem arises when you do a moderately rapid pan, especially with a wide angle lens. The camera generates an I frame, then several P/B frames that move everything left and add some new pixels. Then a half second later sends another I frame, then more P/B frames. Problem is that when you pan (especially with a wide angle lens) it's not really just moving the picture a few pixels to the left. The scene is stretched in some places and squashed in others by the lens, so when the next I frame comes along, there's a tiny 'jump' as the straight copy-and-move is replaced by the actual scene with all the associated lens distortion. That explanation is a little dated, because the latest compression scheme (H.264/MPEG-4 AVC) is far more complex than that. But it is visible on some devices. It is very obvious on the little Hero camera. Is your CX100 set to the HD FH? That will give you the highest possible data rate (and might help with that problem.) (waiting for DSE to see this post and say "no, that's all wrong . . .") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #253 March 2, 2009 I've read that EIS is bad in freefall so i've tried shutting it off on my PC1000. Didn't see any less camera shake so i leave it on. I don't get the smoothest video in the world... but i think a better camera helmet that really clamps to my head will help. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #254 March 2, 2009 Quote Quote With the old PC series cameras, I thought the steadyshot (EIS I think) helped considerably. Ditto. Same for the HC-5 and TRV EIS models. With my old TRV25 I got noticeable shake mainly under canopy (filming CRW) with steady shot on, turned it off and the shake was gone. With my HC5 I didn't get shakes so much with steadyshot on but I got "waves" when deploying my canopy, very annoying so again I turned it off. On the whole, I get noticeable better video with steadyshot off, maybe I just keep my head more still than you guys ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedamigo 0 #255 March 2, 2009 Quote I'd turn off autofocus and steadyshot, try setting focus to infinity for starters. When you have jumped without autofocus and without steadyshot I'd like to see some (high-def) footage please as for autofocus: i agree that setting focus manually to infinity seems to be the rule of thumb, however in this jump autofocus worked really well (transitions between inside and outside were really fast as well, the exposure change was all i could notice). i couldn't see any scenes that were out of focus, expect for the very edges of the image that IMO are softened due to the wideangle (century HD 0.55). it was all in a hurry and i got my lens just right before the jump and when i set focus to infinity it was out of focus (apparently due to the lens or step-up ring) which got me confused as a greenhorn so i put it back on auto. seems now that the right setting is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2m, but its a damn hassle to get it right with these basic controls and screen. as for steadyshot: opinions seem to be split ... i'll try it with steadyshot off next time i'll upload the edited full-res avc 16mpbs mp4 tomorrow. for the time being there's a lower-res HD clip on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=51784999686 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #256 March 2, 2009 >On the whole, I get noticeable better video with steadyshot off, maybe I just >keep my head more still than you guys . . . I think it's because your head is so much smaller than mine. My head is so big that it slows down the frequency of the shake enough to let the EIS system deal with it . . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #257 March 2, 2009 Quote I think it's because your head is so much smaller than mine. My head is so big that it slows down the frequency of the shake enough to let the EIS system deal with it . . . . Finally a benefit to having a big melon. The dampening effect for video stabilization. Cool.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PharmerPhil 0 #258 March 2, 2009 QuoteI think it's because your head is so much smaller than mine. My head is so big that it slows down the frequency of the shake enough to let the EIS system deal with it . . . . I notice much smoother video when I have been drinking heavily. Maybe my brain turns to jelly, and that better damps the vibrations...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #259 March 2, 2009 with the exception of one word, you're spot-on, Bill. You said: QuotePrevious HD codecs would use several types of frames - I,P and B- when recording video. The I frames were independent, and contained all the information needed to reconstruct that frame of video. The P frame was a predictive frame, and did not encode the information in the new frame. Instead, it would encode just the differences between the previous frame and the current frame. The B frame was another kind of predictive frame. Not just _previous_ codecs, but most MPEG codecs use IBP frame sequences, the question is how many B/P frames between the I frames. Sometimes it's 4, sometimes 6, sometimes 8, 12, or 15. Anything longer than 6 is considered "Long GOP" and some folks will do anything they can to tell you that long GOP is bad. Back to the CX100/105. it's a long-GOP device. Encoding arifacts are certainly possible, but in good lighting, unlikely. I'm waiting for a sunset jump where I can test the slow-shutter of this cam, I'm expecting some streaking but not much. Maybe Trunk can get a famous Arizona sunset, or get Jason to shoot one. We're still in the cold here. BDazel, you may also be seeing some NLE issues, depending on the decode. I showed a friend a re-encoded piece AVCHD and he thought he was seeing jumps and/or artifacts.Turned out it was interlacing and HDD speed problems playing back a 15Mbps file. Raw footage didn't display the issues he was seeing. Had a similar experience with a very educated/experienced camera flyer/editor. Be SURE you know what you're looking at.Play the footage off the camera over HDMI for the best view/test view. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bdazel 0 #260 March 2, 2009 Quote BDazel, you may also be seeing some NLE issues, depending on the decode. I showed a friend a re-encoded piece AVCHD and he thought he was seeing jumps and/or artifacts.Turned out it was interlacing and HDD speed problems playing back a 15Mbps file. Raw footage didn't display the issues he was seeing. Had a similar experience with a very educated/experienced camera flyer/editor. Be SURE you know what you're looking at.Play the footage off the camera over HDMI for the best view/test view. Thanks for the info everyone. The jumping is visible in several places: on the lcd when recording, on the lcd when playing back through camera, and on my PC when playing using Sony's PMB software. I'm suspicious of the PC playback, because my processors are maxed when playing back the HD footage (Core 2 2.16ghz/ Nvidea GeForce 9800 GT). I'll get an HDMI cable and play directly to the monitor next to try it out, both with and without EIS. I haven't done much editing with AVCHD files yet, but I have converted a few AVCHD files to MPEG2 and AVI using Adobe Encoder. The results seems poor (Very low resolution) - but I'm still trying to work out all the bugs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #261 March 3, 2009 Quote Quote Quote With the old PC series cameras, I thought the steadyshot (EIS I think) helped considerably. Ditto. Same for the HC-5 and TRV EIS models. With my old TRV25 I got noticeable shake mainly under canopy (filming CRW) with steady shot on, turned it off and the shake was gone. With my HC5 I didn't get shakes so much with steadyshot on but I got "waves" when deploying my canopy, very annoying so again I turned it off. On the whole, I get noticeable better video with steadyshot off, maybe I just keep my head more still than you guys Would you post some of your footage with/without EIS so folks can see the differences? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedamigo 0 #262 March 3, 2009 if it helps anybody with the purchase decision ... i uploaded some footage on rapidshare: http://rapidshare.com/files/204715704/full_length_01.part2.rar http://rapidshare.com/files/204715190/full_length_01.part1.rar password for the rar: "chuchichaeschtli" ... the famous swiss german word it's an h264 mp4 file in 1920x1080x25fps (interpolation deinterlacing used) and as said before with century optics HD 0.55 lens, HD FH 16mbps mode, everything on auto, face detection stuff off, steadyshot on, helmet maybe not strapped tightly enough as i got caught in a hurry, my first camera jump anyways (arg, didn't turn my head enough to capture most of my buddy's flight and my flyby when he opened his chute) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #263 March 3, 2009 Quote Just because.... Mounting pictures hey... that first picture is of curtis... right? he spent some time with my fiancee and I in the tunnel in early febuary... (although he probably wouldn't remember me...) Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldschrat 0 #264 March 3, 2009 Quote Found out the reason for it not being available yet here...the red version (which I wanted) wont be in stock for another 4 or 5 weeks. But the silver and black ones are already in stock. Just ordered mine, and will be delivered by friday! NO NO!!! you F.[/:P] Now i am hot! ...and hopfully also red, BEFORE mccordia G. Holm l the weather turns better on weekend. Lets play!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #265 March 3, 2009 Quote helmet maybe not strapped tightly enough as i got caught in a hurry, my first camera jump anyways (arg, didn't turn my head enough to capture most of my buddy's flight ' Did I hear ? Not bad! I'm not sure what you gained by converting to MPG4 though, file size isn't different enough by comparison to the originals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clint 1 #266 March 4, 2009 Has anyone used it for HandCam yet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbwing 0 #267 March 4, 2009 Thanks for posting the video Mathias... Now, is it only me or does it seem quite 'jerky'? I'm playing it in QT and it doesn't seem smooth at all... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LoftyBanter 0 #268 March 4, 2009 Does this cam come with a remote? or does the existing Sony remote's work on it? I looked at Sony page spec - no remote was listed. I have a TG1 - I miss not having a remote when debriefing footage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bomb420 1 #269 March 4, 2009 There is no infrared port for a remote to work on this camera. For us it seems one of the biggest drawbacks of this camera for coaching. The TG1 does come with a remote but its different than older sony remotes.HYPOXIC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #270 March 4, 2009 I'll see what I can do, the trv25 is basically dead and my oldest tapes are archived (ie, in a carton box somewhere deep in my garage), I know I have an opening which shows the "wave" thingie the HC5 does in a Teuge daily video somewhere. So far, 2 jumps in the whole of february and crappy weather forcasted for next weekend, I doubt I'll have oppertunity to play around much in freefall... Very much want to though as I ordered a CX105 (which I really really need right, LOL) which hopefully will arrive before next weekend ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydemon 0 #271 March 4, 2009 Hey DSE, I have a few questions for you: I had a new Sanyo Xacti 1010, but when I saw this new sony cam, I sold it and bought a CX100. I'm looking for a very small lens like a Royal lens, but for hi def... I have a Royal 0.3x and I love it, lens size, weight and FOV are perfect for my use, but I know that Royal lenses hasn't enough quality for HD... Which are the smallest hi def lens (in 0.3-0.43) that you know?? Is this one a hi def lens? Do you know something like this (low profile) but in 0.3x??: [http://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1069&IID=1754] Thanks for your help and sorry for my english! BTW.....what do you think about opteka lenses? [url][http://www.opteka.com] EDIT: spell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #272 March 4, 2009 Quotehttp://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1069&IID=1754 I don't know if it is considered HD but the Century 0.55x wide angle is a very good low profile lens that seems to work quite well on HD cameras. I've noticed some chromatic aberations at the edges of the frame but otherwise it seems to be very popular among camera flyers looking for a low profile lens. It is however not possible to zoom in fully while using autofocus with this lens. (because it is a single element.)Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph_W 0 #273 March 4, 2009 Got mine today directly from Sony here in Germany at a very decent price. Also many dealers list it now as available on the websites here in Germany. The camera is so small, so light, cant belive it. RalphSilence is golden. www.bt-ag.ch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedamigo 0 #274 March 4, 2009 QuoteThanks for posting the video Mathias... Now, is it only me or does it seem quite 'jerky'? I'm playing it in QT and it doesn't seem smooth at all... Play it with VLC or BSPlayer .. QT didn't work smoothly for me either. As previously said, it's certainly a bit shaky, but IMO it shouldn't look jerky. QuoteDid I hear Beer! ? Not bad! I'm not sure what you gained by converting to MPG4 though, file size isn't different enough by comparison to the originals. Well cheers, DSE. Not sure what you mean by "what you gained by converting to MPG4 ..." File size wasn't of any concern, but I needed to get it edited and deinterlaced ... or should I leave that to playback filters? Which seem to work fine, e.g. ffdshow, but not every computer user will know how to choose the appropriate deinterlace settings. And after editing, how can I not convert it to MPG4? I need to choose something IMHO ... Or which format/container do you recommend for best quality for computer viewing, resp. archiving (in Vegas)? Another question, would you recommend using another deinterlacing method than the ones provided in Vegas, whereof interpolate seems like the only way to go anyways, or am I mistaken? For example Mike's smart deinterlacer could be an alternative but I get jerky playback with it at the moment, still experimenting ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #275 March 4, 2009 At the risk of sounding like my girlfriend... DAMN THAT THING IS SMALL! Attached a pic of the camera on my desk, next to my bank-card JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
