Help Needed - Filling the Gap

[bdrake529 0]

Hi, I'm in need of some ideas for preventing riser/line snag on a custom flat mounting plate I plan to jump on top of my Tonfly Fuego Pro helmet.

In the attached images, you can see the helmet with the plate attached, and the obvious snag hazard this currently presents (don't plan to jump this until I find a solution).

The solution I need must be removable since I plan to swap out the plate with my Tonfly camera box when I'm just jumping a single video camera. The mounting screw setup I have accommodates this and swapping between the two is very easy.

An idea I started with was to take nylon cord and run it from each of the four corners of the plate, down to the helmet somehow. An extremely inelegant version of this would be to have the 4 cords secured under my chin. A slightly more sophisticated solution would be to drill holes in the helmet and have the cords secured internally somehow. The idea being that if enough tension was kept on the cords, they would effectively deflect risers/lines just long enough to prevent a snag.

Another idea was to get some thick foam, and hand carve it to roughly fit the contour of the helmet on each side, attaching the 2 foam "deflectors" under the plate to fill the gaps. Not sure if foam would do the job deflection-wise and not sure if hand-carved foam would survive many trips into freefall.

Another idea was to cut some PVC and place a tube under each side of the plate. This doesn't really solve the problem, but makes the gap smaller and hopefully harder to snag. The convex shape of the pipe may lead to risers/lines sliding out as well (though there'd still be a nasty snag point between the bottom of the pipe and the helmet).

None of these ideas seem like the ideal solution so I thought I'd throw this one out there to see if anyone here had a better idea.

Thanks,


Brian

Brian Drake

[PharmerPhil 0]

First off, good for you for recognizing this as a hazard. I have seen people actually jump things this scary (and worse), and you are right to avoid that at all costs.

That being said,,...man, that's a big overhang. It looks like you are trying to possibly mount two cameras side-by-side. And while admirable, I really question your choice of helmet for this. The amount of time, effort, and materials you will sink into making this safe(r) would (IMHO) be better spent on a separate dedicated camera helmet like the Sky Systems Vapor or the Flat-top Pro.

I have filled many smaller gaps using either a hand-shaped pieces of plastic, or, for smaller pieces, hot glue (which dries fairly hard). You could form some sort of small PVC tubes like you mention, but you would have to contour them to fit the curve of the helmet so there is no smaller, sharper gap (bench grinders are great for this). But making something like this easily removable would be tough. Additionally, if you fill only the corners and not the field, you could still get lines or slider stops stuck underneath, so it certainly wouldn't be "snag-proof."

Again, if it were I, I would get a larger, dedicated camera helmet, and use a quick release on both helmets to swap the video camera between the two helmets depending on your video needs. But I'm sure that's not what you wanted to hear.

Just my too sense,...

[tunnelfly 0]

If you want to go with the cord option, I'd use strong bungies, fixed to the corners of the plate and with some hooks at the other ends to hook under the edge of the helmet shell.

Cheapest option would probably be a roll of duct tape. Put some strips from the plate strait down to as low as possible on the shell, and wrap some more around the whole thing to fill the gaps and give it more strength. Might even look good, but don't forget some alcohol to remove the residual glue when you take it away....
I would probably go for this solution, if i'd only use it on rare occasions.
If you plan on using multiple cameras more often, get an FTP...

No.1 reason NOT to be an astronaut: ...You can't drink beer at zero gravity...

[bdrake529 0]

Thanks for the reply

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The amount of time, effort, and materials you will sink into making this safe(r) would (IMHO) be better spent on a separate dedicated camera helmet like the Sky Systems Vapor or the Flat-top Pro.

You really think that the time, effort and materials of fixing my problem will equate to more than $700 (roughly)? That seems a bit extreme and I'm curious how you arrived at that estimate.

Thanks

Brian Drake

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

You really think that the time, effort and materials of fixing my problem will equate to more than $700 (roughly)? That seems a bit extreme and I'm curious how you arrived at that estimate.

Quite simply, yes. But I guess it depends on how much you value your time, and what your solution to the problem is (keeping in mind you don't even have a solution yet).

I have made/modified enough camera helmets and similar hardware that I look at it and make an educated guess that doing my own design work, acquiring materials, and doing the labor required is likely to take the better part of a week, and will probably not be as good as one of the options I listed.

Personally though, I love this stuff, so I am curios what solutions others come up with. Necessity is the mother of invention.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

The amount of time, effort, and materials you will sink into making this safe(r) would (IMHO) be better spent on a separate dedicated camera helmet like the Sky Systems Vapor or the Flat-top Pro.

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You really think that the time, effort and materials of fixing my problem will equate to more than $700 (roughly)? That seems a bit extreme and I'm curious how you arrived at that estimate.

Who cares about the estimate, how about just buying or building the correct tool for the job?

How far into mounting that huge plate on that little helmet did you realize what you were creating? The snag hazzard is one thing, how about the aerodynamics of all that overhang. This isn't just something that has to be strong, and look good on the ground, you're going to bolt it to your head and take it into a high-velocity windstream.

Sell the helmet you have, and put the money toward a proper full-size camera helmet that has enough room up top for all of your stuff. It would be one thing if you were trying to set-up something unsually big like a film camera, or a medium format still camera and even a Flat Top Pro wouldn't hold all your stuff. Then you live with the overhang and hope for the best. But in your case it appears that several helmets are available that were made to hold the stuff you need, without any overhang at all.

You want it fixed, that's the way to fix it.

[billvon 2,990]

Go to a boat store and get a fiberglass patch kit.

Next take a wire brush and rough up the areas around the edge of the helmet. Build a structure of something (cardboard works fine) to 'fill out' the underside of the helmet, from the edges of the plate to the place where you want it to mesh with the helmet.

Mask the areas of the helmet you don't want messed up.

Now make some fiberglass patch material - usually requires resin, some hardener, fiberglass cloth and a tray. Cut the patch material to size while dry. Then soak it and lay it down on the helmet. Form it as much as possible to the shape you want.

Once it's dry, sand it. If you're close enough, then great. If not, start another layer of fiberglass. Once it's done you can sand and paint it if you like.

[bwilling 0]

It's not exactly cheap, but this would work rather well...

Machinable foam is available in a variety of densities, and can me formed with common hand tools (think wood working tools, but much easier to work with). That and a little gaffers tape, and you'd be all set.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[pattersd 0]

I think running lines from each corner to the helmet would be a bad solution, what happens if you deploy unstable and some bridle ends up behind one of the lines?
I think think the solutions offered by billvon and bwilling are on the right track, use some hard foam to form the shape required between the helmet and plate then use billvons fiberglass solution to wrap the foam, although for what you are trying to do I would reverse it. encase the foam in fiberglass and attach the foam blocks to the plate. use some gaffers tape to close the gaps between the helmet and your fiberglass blocks. probably wont take you more than 15-20 hours to get something that looks nice and works.

[bdrake529 0]

First, thanks everyone for their input. It's been helpful.

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to get something that looks nice and works

Well, I think I've now got something that works. It is a stupid idea, but functionally I don't see why it won't work. I took 2 socks and some tape and viola! See the attached images for proof (the minimal masking tape was just proof-of-concept, I'd use liberal amounts of gaffers tape for jumping, and probably black socks for color matching).

I think this crude approach solves my safety problem, and is easily removable, so in a sense, my problem is solved.

But it certainly isn't very stylish. So I'm going to investigate the machinable foam + fiber glass solution.

Another idea I had was using some sort of clay/putty. I have a bunch of those putty-like ear plugs and was playing around with using them. If I got enough, I could hand mold it perfectly. Does anyone have experience with molding clay/putty and suggestions on an effective type that is hopefully cheap?

To those who think I should just buck up and shell out the cash for a flat-top pro (or equivalent), I'm still not convinced. I already have a camera helmet and currently, my expenses in addition to already having the helmet are:

metal plate: $25
metal shop work to cut groove for camera screws: $30

$55 or $700? Hm.... you tell me.

Plus, once I get this settled to my liking, I have a helmet that is good in 3 configurations:
No cameras = maximum aerodynamics, least drag
1 camera in camera box
2 cameras on plate = much cheaper, and lighter than a flat-top

For maybe $100 over the initial cost of my Fuego Pro, I'd say a little ingenuity goes a long way.

Especially in an economy like today. I'm happy for those of you for whom money is a dismissible factor, but I'm trying to be frugal.

Blue skies,

Brian

Brian Drake

[DSE 5]

Socks are pretty soft, should something want to hang up.
I'm more a fan of the machinable foam (fairly cheap, and scrap might be available), covered in gaffers tape.
Lightweight, strong, as removeable as the plate and socks are, and could be carved smooth to add some aerodynamic value.

[PharmerPhil 0]

Yeah, this is way better than a real camera helmet. What was I thinking...

Tell me again how this "tape" is going to keep lines from getting stuck under that plate in a violent opening (assuming it is still even there after freefall)?

[bdrake529 0]

Hey Spot. What's up?

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Socks are pretty soft, should something want to hang up.

Even using running/ankle socks, I had to really stuff them into the gap, so they were not "soft" and had no available compression left. The only way to make an impression in them was to really push hard with a single finger. I seriously doubt a glancing strike from a riser (which has a wider surface-to-force ratio) would be able to depress the cloth enough to remain wedged under the plate.

But the machinable foam is definitely looking like a better solution. So while I'm comfortable with jumping the sock solution this weekend, I'll be pursuing the foam and maybe going the extra step to encase it in fiber-glass and paint to match the helmet.

Thanks,

Brian

Brian Drake

[bdrake529 0]

Quote

Yeah, this is way better than a real camera helmet. What was I thinking...

Well, I'm not a real camera flyer, so what can I say?

No need to take this personally Phil.

Brian Drake

[billvon 2,990]

>But it certainly isn't very stylish. So I'm going to investigate the machinable
>foam + fiber glass solution.

Heck, use socks and fiberglass!

[PhreeZone 20]

You are not looking for a riser to get hung up, you are looking for a line to get hung up. Take a piece of spectra line and run it over the corners of this and see if the line gets between the plate and anything else, its going to and then its stuck. A line gets places your finger won't get into.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[beowulf 1]

ummm I don't think that your sock and tape idea is going to make your helmet any more snag resistant. You underestimate the force of your risers. From those pictures I would say you will probably lose your socks and the tape on the first jump.

[bdrake529 0]

Let me elaborate a bit on:

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(the minimal masking tape was just proof-of-concept, I'd use liberal amounts of gaffers tape for jumping...)

as this was obviously too subtle.

The sock is simply for volume to fill the gap. I wouldn't have any of it exposed, but would liberally apply (i.e., use lots of) gaffers tape to cover the entire assembly. Therefore, unless a suspension line has the time to literally saw back and forth to cut a groove through the tape, and get wedged under the plate, won't any glancing lines simply bounce off the several layers of tape and move on?

Brian Drake

[HSPScott 0]

Quote

To those who think I should just buck up and shell out the cash for a flat-top pro (or equivalent), I'm still not convinced. I already have a camera helmet and currently, my expenses in addition to already having the helmet are:

metal plate: $25
metal shop work to cut groove for camera screws: $30

$55 or $700? Hm.... you tell me.

It's only a matter of how valuable you think your life is. Adding the socks is just going to make sure that when the line snags, it will for sure get caught and not have any chance of clearing.

At least you have a cut away system installed.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

You really think that the time, effort and materials of fixing my problem will equate to more than $700 (roughly)? That seems a bit extreme and I'm curious how you arrived at that estimate.

Thanks

Psssst......................."Bone Bonds" dude.

[mccordia 74]

Just use ductape to get the shape right, then overlay a few sheets of fiberglass....give it a touch of paint..

Skydivers always amaze me...We spend 150 dollars a weekend on jumps, yet try and save 5 bucks on gear we use for the next couple of hundred/thousand jumps..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[beowulf 1]

Sorry I missed that.

I think the lines would cut right throught the tape with out too much problem if there is a lot of tension on the lines. That set up would be begging for line snags.

[bdrake529 0]

Quote

Just use ductape to get the shape right, then overlay a few sheets of fiberglass....give it a touch of paint.

Skydivers always amaze me...We spend 150 dollars a weekend on jumps, yet try and save 5 bucks on gear we use for the next couple of hundred/thousand jumps..

$700 (rough cost of new flat-top) - $100 (rough cost of materials in fiberglass solution) = $600 != $5

If I can fiberglass a solution, it will be just as snag resistant as a $700 helmet. For $150 in a weekend I get 6 jumps. For the extra $600 I get what exactly? A pat on the back for using a "real" camera helmet?

Brian Drake

[billvon 2,990]

>If I can fiberglass a solution, it will be just as snag resistant as a $700 helmet.

Well, probably not. Most of those $700 helmets have been through a few design cycles and had improvements added. But you can probably get something that's not too bad.

>For the extra $600 I get what exactly? A pat on the back for using a
>"real" camera helmet?

A better helmet overall, generally. (There's a lot more to any helmet than just snag resistance.) But again, that may not be your final goal; you may not need that level of performance for what you're doing.

[bdrake529 0]

What about using this stuff

Brian Drake