beginner ?: will gopro during coaching teach skills for doing tandem video?

[5.samadhi 0]

beginner question. In a few dozen more jumps I will have the 200 jumps needed to jump a camera and also I will be hopefully getting my coach rating.

I plan to shoot tandem videos and hopefully competitive 4way some point in my skydiving life.

That said, would I be better off getting a sony CX150 NOW to use during coach jumps (to view during debriefing) instead of a gopro or some similar low profile camera.

Benefits of sony now: have the gear that I need to shoot tandem videos. train on that gear, easy transition to tandem video (hopefully?).

benefits of gopro/similar cam: smaller profile, cheaper, can hopefully learn on the gopro about framing and all that and transfer skills.

its the last point im not sure about given my experience...can I really beneficially train on the gopro and have acquired some skills to make the transition to sony cx more seamless. I'm aware of some differences in lenses (which is what I am worried about will affect framing, etc?). I would rather spend a little more money now on box, lenses, etc and go with the sony than buy the gopro now and ingrain a bunch of bad habits that will be hard to transfer once I get the sony for tandem videos later. Does that make sense?

thanks for helping :)

[DSE 5]

FWIW, I'd recommend learning with a less wide lens. In more than a few situations, I've seen guys that usually shoot .3/180 degree lenses turn to .5 lenses and miss the shots.

Tandem-.5
RW-.5
Coaching-.3

My opinion is that you would/should want to learn to shoot based on aim vs spray n' pray.
That said, I shoot fairly regularly with a .3 because during coaching, I don't want to think at all about aiming.

[matthewcline 0]

The lens tech and framing advice, I leave up to DSE.

This is fro man C/E and I/E as well as a way back when Videographer. Please do not mix Coaching and Shooting video till your proficient at both as separate jobs!

Be safe. ask and learn at the DZ from the top Coaches and Camera Flyer's at your DZ.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[billvon 2,990]

>In a few dozen more jumps I will have the 200 jumps needed to jump a camera
>and also I will be hopefully getting my coach rating.

Good plan. The coach rating will give you some experience jumping with students which is pretty valuable if you end up videoing students. I'd suggest starting with 4 way first though; you'll learn more and get better feedback. (And you can likely find a local team who would be very happy with some free video.)

I don't think you will ingrain bad habits with the Gopro but you may find it easier to learn on the Sony since you'll be able to switch lenses more easily and figure out what the difference is and which you like. Also having a tally light (like a Hypeye) helps a lot in decreasing workload during the exit.

[faulknerwn 38]

And I would actually say the go-pro is more snaggable than the cx150 the way most are mounted I'd suggest the contour if you decide to go with the smaller camera.

[wildcard451 0]

Cool. So now you can strap a camera to your head. You wanna fly video? Spend 100-200 jumps getting to where you don't suck.
Gonna get a coach rating?
Cool - now spend another 100 jumps learning to fly with students for real, and being aware of what you are doing, what they are doing, and how to debrief them.

Now, a couple hundred jumps down the road, put them together. Doing otherwise is gonna shortchange the student on coaching while you are so busy trying to get them on video, you never watched what they actually did. Worst case, learning to fly the camera, you actually endanger the student and also not coach them in the process.

Your debrief should not be dependent on the video when you land. You should already have the awareness to know what is gonna be on the video prior to watching it, and the ability to debrief well with out it.

To do otherwise does both of you a disservice. You shouldn't be "learning" on paying customers.

Not being mean, or attempting to be condescending.


To actually answer your question, and not to be a "newb bashing asshole that answers a question you didn't ask" - I'd do the CX150, and actually get a REAL camera setup, sights and all. Then, volunteer to film coach jumps once you get your coach rating, to learn to fly the slot and all. It's a process. Best of luck.
/my 0.02
//worth what you paid for it

[davelepka 4]

Your biggest problem, as others have pointed out, is that you're asking about what YOU can learn on a coach jump, when the purpose of those jumps is for you to teach.

If your skills are limited to staying 'nearby' and observing, then you use those skills to teach the student. If your skills include being able to demonstrate the skills being taught, then you'll use those skills to teach the student, and if your skills include shooting video, again, you can use those skills to teach the student.

The one thing you should not be doing, is learning those skills for yourself on the student's 'dime'. How would you view a coach you said, 'I'm not that good at tracking, how can I practice that when doing coach jumps'? Probably not very favorably, but that's essentially what you're suggesting.

In terms of the equipment, the type of camera or lens makes no difference once you have the skills to shoot video for money. Learning the 'limits' of a lens only takes a jump or two for an experienced camera flyer, and it's not hard to fly a couple different lenses during your learning progression so you have an idea of what to expect, and when to use what lens.

[DSE 5]

Gang,

Please save the coach vs video vs experience for the other forums?

All of the posts are spot-on, but there are already a few threads in other forums on this very subject.

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In terms of the equipment, the type of camera or lens makes no difference once you have the skills to shoot video for money.

This is not accurate either in the air or on the ground.

[5.samadhi 0]

wildcard and dave, I totally agree with you. I almost posted last night trying to explain I wasnt an asshole thinking about using the students on coach jumps for my own nefarious ends...

I thought it pretty obvious but now that I think about it my intentions are NOT obvious to you and your critiques are totally legitimate. Let me emphasize that I want to fly coach first and foremost to be able to interact with the beginners on my dropzone and foster them so that they want to continue skydiving. The worst thing I ever seen on dz's is how newbies will get ignored and then they will lose interest...not everybody is a 'type A' personality and outgoing etc...I would like to foster these types of skydivers to become excellent skydivers (or better/safer at least).

Also, I DO feel like I should be learning QUITE A BIT on my coach jumps...because I really want to be an instructor someday (AFF/tandem). And I need to learn something on EVERY jump, fun jump, coach jump, hop/pop, whatever. That way when I get many many more jumps and many hours in groundschool classroom I will be ready.

ok sorry for almost /threading (or did I? ).

I'm kinda leaning toward the Sony CX now after reading these comments and thinking about it more...since I will want to do coach jumps without a camera for a little while anyway it makes sense to go for the more expensive one (it will take me awhile to save up for the sony compared to a used gopro). So while I'm saving this summer I can hopefully start my coaching.

[davelepka 4]

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In terms of the equipment, the type of camera or lens makes no difference once you have the skills to shoot video for money.

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This is not accurate either in the air or on the ground.

Sure it is.

The type of camera is irrelevant in skydiving, you turn it on and exit, so provided you can read a manual and take care of the settings, the type of camera you use does not matter. Yes, there are better brands, and there are differing levels of quality, but anything that turns on records can be used to develop video flying skills.

The lens is the real variable, and in the sense that you can't put a lens on a Go-Pro, I guess the camera becomes a variable in that sense, but seeing as the stock Go-Pro is 'suitable' for skydiving, it's sort of a wash.

Back to the idea of the lens, all the lens does is dictate your slot as the camera flyer, and if you have the skills to shoot video for money, you have the skills to fly in different slots. Got a .5 or .6 on a tandem? Your slot is going to be 5 or 6 feet away from the tandem. Switch up to a .3, you're going to need to cut that distance in half.

If you can't handle that, then how would you shoot a 4-way on one load and then an 8-way on another? Or a tandem, and then an AFF? They're all different 'sizes' and if you use the same lens, you'll need to fly in different slots relative to the subject in order to properly frame them.

Truth is, when it comes to equipment selection for paid video work, more and more it's sort of up to the DZ policy as to what you fly. If they have an editing suite in place, you need to shoot what works with their equipment, and if you have to provide your own editing equipment, your video choices will depend on what's compatible with your editing choices.