quick release mounting plate on curved helmet?

[5.samadhi 0]

hello, can i mount a quick release mounting plate on the top of a regular helmet, provided I get bolts big enough to reach down inside the helmet? I know there will be a gap but I was going to fill that gap in with something (polyethylene maybe).

is there any problem I am not envisioning??? Only the edges of the mounting plate will be off the helmet so the plate itself should be very secure (and as long as the gap is filled in there won't be a snag hazard).

[dragon2 2]

What you're looking for is something like this or this.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[5.samadhi 0]

dragon, thanks for responding. Yes I have seen those adapters. What do they do that long bolts and dripping melted polyethylene in the gap won't do???

I have pure polyethylene powder and welding tools of all varieties at my disposal so 'filling in the gaps' shouldnt be a large task (few minutes to heat up the poly and drip it in).

just double checking that I am not missing something...

[5.samadhi 0]

comments? feedback???

[Skwrl 56]

I think the short answer is "it depends".

If you do a good job of it, it will be fine. If at the end it looks like it was done by a paste-eating five year old, your cameras will likely be wibbly-wobbly and you will either have to rip it off and start over or replace the helmet altogether.

How good are your arts and crafts skillz?

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[5.samadhi 0]

I have several pasta macaroni pictures hanging up around me as we speak.

[davelepka 4]

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just double checking that I am not missing something...

Trust me, you miss a lot.

In terms of your helmet, if the bolts are secure, then when you do with the rest if it is up to you. Using a manufactured piece will be cleaner, and allow you to easily move or remove it, but if you want to 'DIY' the solution, it's your lid so do whatever you want. If anything you do is 'permanent', just make sure that everything is where you want to be before you 'lock' it in place.

[DSE 5]

you do have a chin cup, right?
FWIW, mounting a camera on a curved helmet often implies "no chin cup."
Without a chin cup, you won't have stable video (stills won't matter much)

The rest of it...should work fine, assuming you're able to aim it well during setup. Dave's suggestions/comments are right on as well.

[5.samadhi 0]

I have a chin cup!

anything else I need (I assume hyp-eye).

i will be doing rw camera flying.

[5.samadhi 0]

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just double checking that I am not missing something...

Trust me, you miss a lot.

In terms of your helmet, if the bolts are secure, then when you do with the rest if it is up to you. Using a manufactured piece will be cleaner, and allow you to easily move or remove it, but if you want to 'DIY' the solution, it's your lid so do whatever you want. If anything you do is 'permanent', just make sure that everything is where you want to be before you 'lock' it in place.

Please elaborate on what I am missing

Do you think a better option would be to cover temporarily the helmet and set the adapter myself so I could make it removable.

I work all day long with melting plastic so I am pretty handy maybe what would be considered a professional in melted plastic

[davelepka 4]

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anything else I need?

i will be doing rw camera flying.

Camera flying skills?

[5.samadhi 0]

how many skills do you need to fly video for a beginner four way team? If I can turn 8-12 simple points on a skydive how much better should I become before I have DaveLepka's seal of approval???

[davelepka 4]

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Do you think a better option would be to cover temporarily the helmet and set the adapter myself so I could make it removable.

The best option is to make it removable to point that you can always strip it down and have nothing more than a few bolt holes in your helmet.

In the short term, then might be the neccesary option as you have no idea how to aim or angle the camera. Some of it will be 'common video-guy knowledge' and some of it will be dependant on you, what you're filming, and how you go about it. In any case, expect to make adjustments to things during the first 50 jumps, and if you don't, you're doing it wrong.

There's a difference between the 'best' set-up, and one that you can 'work with'. The chances of a new camera flyer building a new helmet and getting it right-on the first time are slim to none. Even experienced guys will make adjustments to a new lid after it's all together and 'flight tested'.

Even beyond that, what if you're flat-lock sucks, and you want to try a different one, or what if you want to switch cameras at some point? Or add another? Making 'permanent' changes to a helmet outside of a couple small holes is rarely a good idea.

Quick occupational question, what kind of fumes does all this melted plastic produce? Do you guys ever crack a window or run a fan of any kind?

[5.samadhi 0]

Thanks for the advice that was what I needed to frame the project (possible pitfalls). I'll definitely plan to make it removable in case my camera needs to be adjusted.

to answer your question, we do have strong ventilation but I assume some of the melted plastic fumes go straight to my brain because life is getting to be a little too hilarious with each passing day of my wonderful life. But that is what skydiving, sex, drugs (and plastic fumes) will do to a person.

evening Dave!

[davelepka 4]

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how many skills do you need to fly video for a beginner four way team?

Truthfully, more than you need to film an intermediate or advanced four-way team. Those guys will be on the money every time. You know exactly what they're going to do, and how they're going to do it, with the only question being how fast will they do it.

Beginner teams will create far more challenges as you have no idea how they're going to perform from jump to jump, and from point to point.

It's not my seal of approval that you need. It's the teams approval when you supply them with usable video they can train from, and that can be judged in competition. It's your own seal of approval when you set your own personal standard for what kind of work you want to attach your name to, and then you honestly compare your work to that standard and see if you stack up.

[gearless_chris 1]

+1,000,000. Beginner teams are much more difficult.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[5.samadhi 0]

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+1,000,000. Beginner teams are much more difficult.

what should I look out for - ie what are the safety issues?

[davelepka 4]

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what should I look out for - ie what are the safety issues?

I can't say there are any safety issues unique to beginner teams, but the only one I could think of would be at break off. If you take the center (meaning you just pull at break off, everyone esle tracks, you stay put and dump) you run the risk of people taking short tracks and dumping close to you. One way to avouid this is to track off at break off, and pull on level (but far away) from the rest of the team. Whatever the plan, just make sure you set it up ahead of time, and then every member of the team knows and understands their place at break-off. It doesn't hurt to mention the plan just before boarding on every jump.

Otherwise, depending on how 'new' the jumpers are, just remember that you're going to be above them for most of the jump, so gear maintenance and proper packing becomes a concern of yours. Sloppy packing, loose closing loops or BOC pouches, etc, can all add up to a PC or canopy in the face for the camera guy, so keep an eye out for that as well.

[dragon2 2]

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+1,000,000. Beginner teams are much more difficult.

what should I look out for - ie what are the safety issues?

-exit timing
They might not got their exit timing straight yet. Don't leave at the same time as (one of) them. If they re out of synce, just leave after them (peel) to avoid hitting them
especially if they funnel the exit, keep an eye out for anything flapping. I do not get over the center on a jump when i don't like the gear anymore.

-freefall sliding
A newbie team generally slides a hell of a lot in freefall, in all directions. Be careful they do not slide under you, use you wings (and booties) if they do. Especially if the team does not have coaching and tries blocks

-separation
I always keep an eye on and thus film the worst tracker. Make sure everyone's track is at least decent and not too short or steep.
If they are funneling or otherwise having trouble around separation time, you might want to pull a little bit higher.

Really, a A or AA team is sooo much easier to film than rookies. First time I did, I was like, Hey,this is EASY!

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[5.samadhi 0]

thanks a lot guys!

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what should I look out for - ie what are the safety issues?

I can't say there are any safety issues unique to beginner teams, but the only one I could think of would be at break off. If you take the center (meaning you just pull at break off, everyone esle tracks, you stay put and dump) you run the risk of people taking short tracks and dumping close to you. One way to avouid this is to track off at break off, and pull on level (but far away) from the rest of the team. Whatever the plan, just make sure you set it up ahead of time, and then every member of the team knows and understands their place at break-off. It doesn't hurt to mention the plan just before boarding on every jump.

Otherwise, depending on how 'new' the jumpers are, just remember that you're going to be above them for most of the jump, so gear maintenance and proper packing becomes a concern of yours. Sloppy packing, loose closing loops or BOC pouches, etc, can all add up to a PC or canopy in the face for the camera guy, so keep an eye out for that as well.

when you say above them you dont mean directly above them do you? I can always be slightly off to the side and still get the shot that I need right???

[davelepka 4]

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you dont mean directly above them do you? I can always be slightly off to the side and still get the shot that I need right???

The rule of thumb with 4-way video is if you have to ask if you're steep enough, you're not. The 'ideal' place will have you just outside the burble, and if you never feel the burble, again, you're probably not close enough.

This is one reason why new teams are tougher. They tend to slide around the sky more than the better teams, so staying 'just outside' the burble becomes tougher because the burble is always moving.

Forget all that, and let's say you intend to fly a couple feet from the burble at all times. You're still not safe from prematute deployments. The team will be upwind of you in the door, possibly on exit depending on your timing, and one of them could track under you at break off (if you pull out of the center). When you factor in funnels, rebuilding after funnels, and the aforementioned sliding around the sky, you can see several reasons why you need to be aware of the condition and use of the gear being jumped.

Here's a hint - since most 'team guys' get all serious about training, creeping, and dirt diving, they all tend to go the route of using packers. Hang out in the packing room and watch the guys on your team pick up their rigs. If any of them grab it off the pile, and don't check the pins and PC, think about jumping with another team.

[bwilling 0]

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The rule of thumb with 4-way video is if you have to ask if you're steep enough, you're not.

I tell all the new 4 way camera guys the same thing... if you're jumping a wide angle adapter you can't be too close unless you're hitting them, and you're never as steep as you think you are. Get closer and steeper.

Most 4 way video folks jump wide angle adapters because we start too close to the team on exit to have them in frame, and we need to get some distance between us by leading or trailing the exit. The better the team, the faster this needs to happen, as they'll transition to the second point quicker on the hill. A wide angle adapter decreases the distance we need to bring them in frame. It's great for exit, but sucks for the rest of the skydive, because now you have to fly really close, which makes it harder to get steeper because you're closer to their burble.

I'd recommend starting without a wide angle adapter for a rookie team, and see how it goes. They're not likely going to transition quickly, and in fact, if they're smart, they're probably only launching a small handful of formations. None of which are likely to even be the actual first point (it's a throw away to get them launched), so you have plenty of time to get them in frame. Then you can fly a safer distance from them for the rest of the dive.

One our most experienced camera guys at my DZ never jumps a wide angle for 4 way... he leads them enough to get the exit separation he needs to get them in frame quickly. His video is amazing. He literally looks like he's shooting from directly over the top of them.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."