Cameras and RSL's... help me understand.

[Polorutz 0]

Hi guys.

I live in France where rules are a bit different and they allow you to jump a camera after you have 100 jumps.

I have no particular need to jump a camera at the moment but I might want to do it in the future and I want to understand what the main issues are before deciding whether it's something I want to do or not.

Some of the guys around my experience level are starting to jump gopros and the main guys at the DZ always make a big deal about having the RSL disconnected before going to the plane. I understand the need to do this if you have a huge camera with lots of snag points but is it really necessary for a helmet with a cutaway and a low profile gopro?

I have a skyhook in my rig and I quite like knowing that when I chop, odds are I'll be under my reserve before I can blink, I wouldn't want to give this up if I can so basically, can you explain to me the pros and cons about jumping say a cookie fuel with a cutaway system and a good mount hero 3 when it comes to having the RSL connected or not?

Thanks!!

-Polo

[Hellis 0]

Polorutz

Hi guys.

I live in France where rules are a bit different and they allow you to jump a camera after you have 100 jumps.

I have no particular need to jump a camera at the moment but I might want to do it in the future and I want to understand what the main issues are before deciding whether it's something I want to do or not.

Some of the guys around my experience level are starting to jump gopros and the main guys at the DZ always make a big deal about having the RSL disconnected before going to the plane. I understand the need to do this if you have a huge camera with lots of snag points but is it really necessary for a helmet with a cutaway and a low profile gopro?

I have a skyhook in my rig and I quite like knowing that when I chop, odds are I'll be under my reserve before I can blink, I wouldn't want to give this up if I can so basically, can you explain to me the pros and cons about jumping say a cookie fuel with a cutaway system and a good mount hero 3 when it comes to having the RSL connected or not?

Thanks!!

-Polo

Low profile GoPro.
I guess they sell smaler GoPros in france than in the rest of the world.

What would happen if your camera snags a line/riser and breaks/jerks your neck enough to make you unconcious?
Or just temporary unconcious for a few/ten seconds?

[johnmatrix 21]

I live in Australia where the rule is also 100 jumps (C-license) - and most people just strap on a GoPro as soon as they can, cutaway system or not.

I've used variously a CX100, Sony action cam and DSLR top mounted on a Cookie Rok with chin cup cutaway and always have my Skyhook/RSL connected.

Personally I'd advise to keep the Skyhook connected. Sure, maybe it could snag. Lots of things could happen.

Here's some advice from someone with a lot more experience than me though...

http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0

[Hellis 0]

forgot to mention.
I also have my RSL connected.
BUT I don't see a GoPro as a low profile camera and I have done what I can to prevent snags.
Meaning I don't have the standard mount.

[degeneration 5]

Go Pros are small, low volume cameras, not low profile ones. The distance they stick up on the standard hugely elevated mount is ridiculous.

When I first started jumping camera I disconnected my RSL because that is what I was told you should do by more experienced skydivers than me, so I did.

Then I read more and got myself more educated, and have now come to my own decision to keep the RSL connected when I jump camera. My reason now being that I believe the likelihood of a situation arising where I would be better off having the RSL connected is greater than the likelihood of a situation arising where I would have been better off having the RSL disconnected. Purely a balance of probabilites.

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[DSE 5]

Polorutz

the main guys at the DZ always make a big deal about having the RSL disconnected before going to the plane. I understand the need to do this if you have a huge camera with lots of snag points but is it really necessary for a helmet with a cutaway and a low profile gopro?

I have a skyhook in my rig and I quite like knowing that when I chop, odds are I'll be under my reserve before I can blink, I wouldn't want to give this up if I can so basically, can you explain to me the pros and cons about jumping say a cookie fuel with a cutaway system and a good mount hero 3 when it comes to having the RSL connected or not?

Thanks!!

-Polo

This is unfortunate, and a bit of a concern as well, if the "main guys make a big deal about the RSL being disconnected."

A few thoughts;

-If there _is_ a snag and a *potentially* challenged subsequent reserve deployment because the RSL is connected, does it affect the "main jumpers?" Or does it only affect you?

-Which is greater? The risk of a malfunction, or the risk of a malfunction with a camera/main entanglement?

-Which is more important, a helmet cutaway or an RSL (assuming you need to choose one or the other)?

-Please never think of the GoPro as a "low profile" camera. Of all the action cameras out there, it has a significantly higher snag potential than the majority of the small-format cameras.

Even if you can't educate the "main jumpers" as to what is a more risk-aware approach to jumping with a small camera, kudos to you for seeking more/better information.

[Zlew 0]

My suggestion is to keep your RSL/Skyhook hooked up if you jump camera.

Without getting too into the details, I think there is a reasonable argument to disconnect an RSL with camera only if you are flying outside camera, and jumping aggressive canopies (high wingloading/elliptical/xbrace). The issue comes with how an RSL (not a skyhook) deploys your reserve while one your back and spinning. The chance of your reserve components coming near or touching your body are high, and risk of reserve entanglement with camera gear is increased.

I have 2 rigs, and one is not Skyhook capable. I do not have an RSL on that rig, and hope to replace it with a skyhook rig next season. My second rig has a skyhook, and it is hooked up.

In your case, I strongly belive having an RSL/Skyhook is be best way to go.

[Polorutz 0]

Ok, I understand the gopro is not low profile, the newer hero 3 mounts have flush sides that I think make it a bit harder for snags to happen but I understand it could still happen.

What I want to understand is which kinds of malfunction warrant having the RSL disconnected. I would assume anything that has the main risers or lines tangled up in the camera, you wouldn't want to deploy your reserve into a streaming main without falling clear. Are there other types of situation where the RSL is a bad idea?

[Zlew 0]

If your main is entangled with the helmet, get rid of the helmet.

IMO, the bigger issue is not snagging your reserve (or components of your reserve deployment). See my post above about deployments on your back.

[champu 1]

While the Cookie Fuel with a "roller mount" and a cutaway system is one of the safer ways to jump with a gopro on your head it's not low profile.

There are a several things that can go wrong when it comes to extra snag points and malfunctions. You can have a main bridle snag it which could mean a pilot chute in tow, a horseshoe, or could result in you swimming in your main canopy. You could have a main line group or riser snag it on deployment which will probably result in a wild spinning malfunction. You could have a line group or riser snag it when you cutaway which, again will likely result in a wild spinning malfunction. You could have part of your reserve deployment system snag it if you deploy while tumbling away from a cutaway which can prevent your reserve from opening. You could have your reserve pilot chute dance in your burble and wrap around it even if you deploy from a stable body position. And, of course, any of these could also injure and/or incapacitate you.

Any RSL is going to make worse situations where you cut away your main and the risers leave the rings but the main doesn't leave you. On the other hand, a skyhook/MARD could actually help prevent the last couple scenarios I talked about if the reserve bridle was the only thing that was going to get wrapped around the snag point. So the trade-offs are a little different with a skyhook vs a traditional RSL, but there's a trade-off either way between the above situations and all the other skydiving situations where an RSL can help you and there's no snagging going on.

Remember when making the trade, and this is going to sound stupid but it's important, adding a snag point to your helmet does not eliminate and replace the problems RSLs are meant to help with, it just adds to them.

[Polorutz 0]

Champu, thank you very much for your post, that's the kind of information I was after.

To all of you out there with more experience, what have YOU decided?

I'm leaning towards trying to get the safest mount I can and keeping the Mard hooked up.

[DSE 5]

Quote

I'm leaning towards trying to get the safest mount I can and keeping the Mard hooked up.

That's a good "lean."