Audible's

[Canuck 0]

I never had an audible when I was a belly flier, so when I evloved I started without one. I deffinately spent a couple jumps just learning to do alti checks (wrist mount) without corking or spinning - upright and headdown. And really, if you can't make that small a movement without losing stability, how are you ever going to make docks? I really don't see a problem with doing FF jumps without one.
Now that I jump camera however, I wouldn't be without one. Whether it's right or wrong, the fact of the matter is, as we become more focused on getting the shot, we get less focused on checking the alti.
Canuck

[Grumpy 9]

Here in Australia, it is compulsory to have an audible if you're freeflying.
I think it's a good idea - I think two audibles is an even better idea.

[GravityPirate 0]

I would not recommend anyone doing a freefly jump without at least one audible. It is a lot easier to lose altitude awareness during a freefly jump than it is flying flat. You may think that you can rely on your body clock and to a certain extent you can, but you can even forget about that from time to time. Personally, i won't jump without now as I had a pretty scary experience which involved losing altitude awareness and not having an audible.
To sum up: Its not worth the risk

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Quote

you can rely on your body clock

you can rely on your body clock if is set to FF time, but If you've just come over to the dark side, normally where you're body clock would be saying 5000 feet, you're much lower.
You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!!

[GrumpySmurf 0]

I dunno, I think the check out dive is quite a good idea - it guarentees a minimum level of proficiency, especially if the DZ is a hot tourist spot for travelling skydivers - since they haven't been around long enough for other people to jump with them and get a feel for that individuals skills. This way it can be done in one jump and demonstrates that the individual has a minimum skill set and is safe to jump with. It might be a hassle to deal with but it does help protect your butt too. It might be nicer if all the DZ's who want to do check out dives agree on a required set of skills and make the 'blue tag' (or sign off in a log book) be applicable to each other (reciprocity) - so you only have to do it once. And as for paying for it, well you are taking up someones time - at the least - cover the jump ticket and the pack job. I assume the check out jump to get your 'A' license wasn't free, why would this be any different (though charging lift tickets and $100 would be a tad extreme)
The 'AD' licenses are a nice idea but require a huge investment in time and skill that could scare off most would be freefliers - maybe shifting them down and make the skill sets progressive - so an 'A' would mean controlled 6 DoF (degrees of freedom) movment in a sit, a 'B' for sit, stand, and progessive tracking, 'C' for headdown, and 'D' for headdown with toys involved. Then make it understood a 'B' is needed to start learning headdown and jumping in a sit with more than 1 other person, a 'C' to start learning the spaceball and jumping moderate sized groups, and a 'D' to play in big ways. Something like that. I'm just trying to avoid starting work today and babbling stream of thought

[GravityPirate 0]

I agree that your body clock does adjust to freeflying but its just not reliable enough to depend on. My body clock is, 9 out of 10 times pretty acurate but i've been caught out before and so have most people i know who freefly. At the end of the day, we are all human, and we fuck up from time to time - Why risk it?!!

[aufreefly 0]

I will start out by saying that you should NEVER rely on an audible to tell you when to pull. Eventually you will not hear it or it will not work. The next time you are at the DZ ask the skygods which of then has had a cypres fire. The number of expierienced jumpers that have had a cypres fire is very great.
I guess I will tell my story...I had about 200 jumps and was becoming very comfortable flying headdown. Every jump I looked at my altimeter a few times but really waited for the audible to go off. The other thing that I unconciously started to do was look at the guy with 1000 jumps that I had been jumping with. When he broke off I broke off. Well one dive he broke off a little low...at about 3000-3500 feet. I was so confident in his abilities that I just started backtracking off without looking at my altimeter. When I turned and pitched I knew that I was low...but it was too late. After my main had deployed I felt the reserve pilot chute coming off of my back. The reserve deployed normally and I landed the two canopies in a bi-plane configuration.
I learned the hard way. Sad to say, but most jumpers will eventually scare themselves at least once. Now I jump with a device called the wedge. I highly recommend it for freeflying! In any position you can see it without even turning your head...just look down.
I will upload the video of the jump if anyone has any webspace...just let me know.
michael hunt (yes, that is my real name...and i've heard them all)

[MarkM 0]

The wedge? Got links for it?

[aufreefly 0]

I tried to find it...I bought mine from skycat in NC...they are excellent people I am sure they will help you find one
michael hunt (yes, that is my real name...and i've heard them all)

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Pat works has a design for something similar here...
make yer own, its fun and teh weather's shitty anyway!
http://www.works-words.com/alti.htm
Cya.
D

[lummy 4]

was aabout to say.....
What is it? Some kind of digital altimeter that mount to the helmet or something?
Make up your own ending,let me know just how you feel....

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Naw, its a wee alti mount that fits on the mud flap, kinda like a chest mount but fits under the three rings. tried something similar a couple of times and didn't like it much, but hey,
Chaque un a son gout...as they say in Vichy.
Cya
D

[MarcusV 0]

Quote

What is it? Some kind of digital altimeter that mount to the helmet or something?

The Wedge is patented and developed for the Golden Knights.
You find more here.
Check out the picture I have attached too...
Blues Marcus
--
Veni, Vidi, Velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around ;-)

[Canuck 0]

Internal clocks work great for flat flying, not so great for freeflying - too many attitudes and variables in a jump. Lets say in one dive you throw some sit, headdown, transitions, and a bit of tracking into da mix. Next jump you spend entirely going ballistic in a tight headdown. We are talking about a major difference in freefall time.
Audibles are great, so are altimeters, so are your eyes. Use them all wisely, and it's all good.
Canuck

[StevieBoy 0]

I just got a Pro-Dytter this morning, NICE birthday present : )
I jump with a Pro-Tec, is it best inside the ear space or mounted outside??
"Skydiving's a source, it'll change your life, swear to God"

[Geoff 0]

inside - you'll hear it better and you're less likely to lose it.
Geoff

[StevieBoy 0]

Inside looks like the solid bet, think I'll go with that,
BUT????
warning alti's for freefly & RW, are there any set standard's, if so what are they, mine are still on factory settings - 4500, 3000 & 1500, ?????
"Skydiving's a source, it'll change your life, swear to God"

[Geoff 0]

1500 is your hard deck
3000 is your deployment altitude.
It's a personal choice, but I stick with these figures.
As for break-off, 4500 seems pretty standard for freefly - at least for small groups with no toys, and 4000 for RW (3500 seems to be going out of fashion), again for small groups.
What's a small group? - well that's a matter of experience. for any jump where you're starting to feel uncomfortable about the number of people in the air, move up 500ft or more. Ask experienced jumpers for guidance on specific jumps.
Really big ways (tens or more of jumpers) are a whole different ball game.
Hope that helps
Geoff

[airann 1]

I rely on my eyes, alti and ProTrack. I get weird about 4500. My first warning is at 4100, then 3500 then 2800.
This may help beginner FFers, I put my alt on at an angle. I developed this at the begining of 2001 when I was just learning. That way when I was learning to sit I did not have to move my hand position hardly at all. Just my thumb.
I put it on reguarly. I have to loop it over 3 fingers, then slide it over to the inside of my wrist just under my thumb. And it doesnt get blown off. Compensate for your Look if you start turning. But you will learn to do this really quick.
Ann ~ www.AirAnn.com

[Remster 30]

Quote

As for break-off, 4500 seems pretty standard for freefly - at least for small groups with no toys, and 4000 for RW (3500 seems to be going out of fashion), again for small groups.

Call me old fashion (yea yea yea I know.. what is the fat bastatrd RW type doing with a post here) but for up to 4 or 6 ways, I'll break off at 3,500 and my pull setting on my dytter is always 2,500 For bigger groups, breakoff 4,500 for up to 15 - 20 ish, and after that, it depends on the breakoff plan.....
I dont relly on the 2,500 warning . If I hear it while i'm pulling the PC or while the canopy is opening, I'm happy.
Remster
Muff 914

[skreamer 1]

Dude, trust me, Alex (GravityPirate) knows what he is talking about. I've seen his near-death experience on video quite a few times - using an audible (or two) when freeflying makes sense. Also, remember if you rely on your body clock and you regularly jump at a DZ with exit altitude of '13 500, the first time you go jump at a DZ with exit altitude of '12 000 you might be in for a little surprize....
Will
"Don't die until you're dead"