I think I'm gonna try something new

[Michele 1]

O.K., since this weekend will be the last time I can play in the sky until I'm all healed from surgery, I wanted to try something new. As it goes right now, I fall straight down on my belly, with the occasional 360, front and back flip. But Saturday, I want to try to sit. Or something. Recline, perhaps.
I am still in rental gear, so I am not certain of the safety of trying to sit. Of course, I am not sure how to even start learning it. Can someone give me a clue or two (or 37?)? And what to look for in gear, so as to make sure I am not using something which will do soemthing unexpected? And of course I return to belly flying to pull, right?
See? I don't know what I'm doing. Save a newbie, post advice! Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
Life is what you make it; always was, always will be.
~Grandma Moses~

[gus 1]

It's really important that your rig is 'freefly friendly'. In my experience rental gear is generally not so great so please tell someone you're planning to sit and ask them to look over your kit first.
After that just go out and have fun! I was told to do the 'dead dog' when learning to sit: roll over on to your back, let your arms and legs go all loose so they're flapping around above you, then you pull your legs in as tight as you can so your heels are touching your butt and your knees are against your chest , that will sit you up a bit, then just bring your arms down to the horizontal to sit you up some more. That puts you in to a kind of stable (hopefully) shuttlecock position from which you can move into a 'proper' sit.
Pat Works describes it much better than I can!
Remember your altitude awareness, freefly speeds are higher so your freefall will be shorter and you'll hit your opening altitude quicker. Borrow an audible if you can but don't rely on it.

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And of course I return to belly flying to pull, right?

Definately. Give yourself a few thousand feet to slow down or you run the risk of getting severely spanked on opening!
Have fun and welcome to the darkside Gus
"Sex? Once every six seconds. Skydiving? Five times, every six seconds."

[freeflir29 0]

Michelle.....spend a little more time on your belly. Get "good" at RW. Make sure you have good fall rate control and can turn points well. Free Flying requires a whole new awareness. It's a huge leap in knowing your body position, fall rate, and altitude. Lately, I have been asking people to wait until they have at least 50 jumps and that doesn't mean 50 solo's. 50 good RW 2 way drill, 4 way, 6 way at least. After 50 I would like people to only do experimental solo's and maybe one or two coach/video dives while still working on those belly skills until 100 jumps or so. After that.....it's game on!!!
Now, I'm not saying don't go out and have fun.....I'm just saying that it'll be much easier for you to learn and a whole lot safer if you give it a little more time.
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[IMGR2 0]

Good call Clay.
That is pretty much what I tell most people to do also.
Actually, if someone that I don't personally know and am familiar with, before I take them on a freefly jump, I will do a belly jump with them first.
As much as we don't like belly flying that IS the position where we save our lives on "almost" every jump. (I have deployed head down before-on video-don't do it!)
But with the gear question, get a local experienced freeflier to look it over.
Bryan
GR#2

[Lindsey 0]

I'm also wanting to learn some freefly.....so that I can be a well-rounded skydiver. I've got a hundred or 2 board jumps and the rest, 600 or so, RW jumps. I don't know if I can get out of the habit of popping over onto my belly when things don't feel right..... I'm sure I can, but.... what have other RWers done to break that habit? On the board, it was natural to sit on the back of the board to regain control.....but that was a whole different story, I think.....
PEace~
Lindsey
Ya' know Smack-water Jack he bought a shotgun
'cause he was in the mood for a little con-fron-ta-tion

[airann 1]

I dont think you should try to break that habit of going to belly when things are not right. I say keep it until you have another position that feels right and is stable.
You have 2 comfort zones now. One with your board and one RW stable position. Thats good.
Later on you can incorporate your sit stable position into your comfort zones. Anyway you go in skydiving you need at least one place to return to when stuff gets goofy.
From that you just add stuff on.... Sittin, Standing, Flippin, Transition, etc....
AirAnn's Video Vault

[Levin 0]

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I dont think you should try to break that habit of going to belly when things are not right. I say keep it until you have another position that feels right and is stable.

i think this advice is questionable. until you learn a stable sit, going to your belly to stop an unintentional spin may be the best thing to do. as soon as you develop a stable sit break the belly habit immediately. don't get in the air with more than one other person until you have broken that habit.
levin
grat#40
vSCR#pending

[Lindsey 0]

Reading that thread about someone corking sure got me thinkin..... It's so not an issue in RW, but apparently can have serious consequences in freeflying.....
When we were at Emerald Coast, Clay,Wingnut, another friend of mine, and I went on a little, light RW jump that went awry. So we started doing flips and stuff. Later, Wingnut said something about me being above or below him at some point, and he seemed a little freaked out (how many times have I landed on someone who slid under???? No prob)..... really seemed like not a very big deal, as we were well clear of each other at pull altitude. I'm guessing he gets that from freeflying....
Peas~
Lindsey
Ya' know Smack-water Jack he bought a shotgun
'cause he was in the mood for a little con-fron-ta-tion

[freeflir29 0]

Hehehehee...funny you should mention that Lindsey. I remember a jump some months ago, a tracking dive I think. I dove out and got a little crazy in all the traffic/pile of bodies diving after the leader. I was in some kind of 'dead' air on the hill and instinctively went to a sit for about a second to get my bearings again before I took off. I laughed pretty hard about it when I got to the ground. "I guess I just became a Free Flyer" LOL Get a nice stable sit going and you won't have any problems. You have enough jumps to "think" about what your doing in the air. The more you do it the more you'll get comfortable.
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Okay Linds.....I had many, many, many belly jumps when the dark side called me....
I spent a lot of solos working on my sit, doing things like front loops, back loops, and cartwheels really helped to break that 'belly out' reflex...So much so, that I was on a hybrid as a belly flier a while back, when it went to ratshit, I found myself banging on my stable sit ........ almost subconciously(sp?)
Corking is a no-no, as you already realise.
If you are comfy on the board, the transition to sit/stand should be relatively painless..... I reckon anyway.....
Cya
D
GR# 37
Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream.

[Lindsey 0]

I wasn't planning on jumping this weekend.....but I think that I'll have to go to the dz before heading down to my dad's for the father's day/birthday celebration..... I guess a pair of cut-offs and long sleeve t should do the trick for this sit escapade? Hee....I think this is gonna be fun....
Peace~
Lindsey
Ya' know Smack-water Jack he bought a shotgun
'cause he was in the mood for a little con-fron-ta-tion

[airann 1]

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as soon as you develop a stable sit break the belly habit immediately

What did I say?
~~~~~~~`I dont think you should try to break that habit of going to belly when things are not right. I say keep it until you have another position that feels right and is stable.~~~~~~
Oh just listen to Levin..... Mr knowitall Lozer
AirAnn's Video Vault

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I guess a pair of cut-offs and long sleeve t should do the trick for this sit escapade?"
Should work fine and help keep you heads up.....If you like sitflying, get a suit as soon as possible, the shorts and baggy top thing can lead to lazy legs later on which might cause you problems.....But you'll be just fine for a couple of jumps like that....
"Hee....I think this is gonna be fun...."
If it ain't fun, don't do it welcome to the dark side....
Cya
D
GR# 37
Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream.

[Lindsey 0]

Okay....so I have a pair of freefly pants that a fella made for me....but no suit. So pants and a longsleeve t, then?
Ya' know Smack-water Jack he bought a shotgun
'cause he was in the mood for a little con-fron-ta-tion

[nacmacfeegle 0]

cool..have fun..try and get an experienced flier to give you somepointers....mebbe even get some filming, it really helps.
Remember to smile Cya
D
GR# 37
Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream.

[Michele 1]

O.k., o.k, Clay. You have not spoken to deaf ears...I have listened, and heard...and you're right - I suppose I should get better on my belly, so that is what I will do this weekend...while I may not wait until jump ## 563 or whatever, you are correct - I need more time learning the basics. After all, safety is the highest priority. I was just hoping to avoid another 4 solos...but hey, they can be fun, too...
Have a ball this weekend, everyone be safe!
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
Life is what you make it; always was, always will be.
~Grandma Moses~

[wildblue 7]

Don't listen to Clay... he's a danger to himself and everyone around him
Ok - if you can find someone to do some RW drill-dives, do those. If you're just going to do a solo - go ahead and try sit flying. If you have a question about the gear or what you need to do, ask someone. Find an instructor, find a freeflyer (they're usually easy to spot) and ask! Have fun, be safe.
Oh… you wanted the cheese sticks as an appetizer ??

[Michele 1]

If I am not greatly mistaken, I will be making the acquaintence of ECVZZ, and I just got off the phone with Skybytch, who has promised to take me up and "throw me around the sky"....I may, in fact, prefer solos!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL...
Thanks, Wildblue...and I always ask. And then ask some more, and then really get into asking. It does drive some people nucking futz......
Have a great and safe weekend...
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
Life is what you make it; always was, always will be.
~Grandma Moses~

[airann 1]

Mich- Funny you should say Sky...lady will throw you around the sky...
Rook did that to me once... I refered to it as "Rook slung me all over the place" dive.
Rook was where ever he was, I was where ever I was and this really big dude sunk into obilivion on us. I believe Booger and I were suposed to be doing an Eagle sit thingamajiggy with Rook on film. I was trying to find out what happend to Booger and he was suddenly a very small speck on the down low when Rook grabbed me by my riser covers and flung me all over... I was sitting then I remember my hands and feet where straitght out front like a cartoon. Next thing you know, I am upside down with Rook flying me around from behind by my riser covers.... where ever he wanted me to go is where I went. ... I was clueless... I forgot to tell him ..Dude, I only got like 120 jumps.... 90 of those are solo....
AAAhhhhhhhh...... 2 late
AirAnn's Video Vault

[Lindsey 0]

Okay.....so I got to make a couple jumps today.....first one I did a little sitting, and the 2nd....well, an old high school friend of my MOM'S shows up, and I jumped with him. Anyway, on the sit jump. Sitting was no problem....I assume I was doing it right.....kind of leaning forward knees bent a bit, and easy to stand from that position? Okay so far? Now, there was one position in there that seemed right, and I wasn't able to really move around from there a lot....if I bent my knees more, I flipped back into a reclining position....if I straigntened them, I stood. I just kind of sat there and watched the 2 way that went before me. I turned a bit just by looking around. Anyway.....what are the main control surfaces for moving forward and backward, and for turning. Do ya' use your arms a lot, or fly more with your body or legs, or what? Not alot of experienced freefliers here to draw info from..... Thanks!
Lindsey
Ya' know Smack-water Jack he bought a shotgun
'cause he was in the mood for a little con-fron-ta-tion

[skybytch 273]

Sooo..... Throwing Michele around the sky today.... heh heh heh...
Well, all I'm gonna say is, Clay, she took your advice and did not attempt sitflying today. She did do about 5 seconds of really good 2 way head down flying today though...
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[freeflir29 0]

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what are the main control surfaces for moving forward and backward

Your feet, upper body, and arms are what sitflying is about. To drive forward, point your toes down, straighten the legs a little and lean back. To go backwards, lean forward, point the toes up, and maybe pick the feet up just a little. Use the arms for heading control. Push the feet way down to go faster or rock back like a lazy boy to slow down. Once you master all that we'll talk about side sliding.

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Well, all I'm gonna say is, Clay, she took your advice and did not attempt sitflying today

Well.....I have to admit that I was slightly shocked and ashamed when I reviewed my log book last night. Jump # 13....Sit Fly HD attempt...... I wish I had some good Free Flyers back then to mentor me. I learned the hard way I guess. My first 50 were mostly RW though. 2, 4, 8, 10 ways......so I learned the basics in there somewhere. "Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[apley 0]

ok, i just couldn't help but reply, because i totally disagree with the conventional advice that RW Belly must be mastered before FreeFly.
First, let me totally disqualify myself. I have 180+ jumps, and am unconventionally is every aspect of my life. Hell, I only work so I can go skydiving 10-15 times a week!
Anyway, here's my personal history with FreeFly...
I started FreeFlying out of curiosity (sitfly, of course) at around 65 jumps. I sucked big time. Lots of guys came up with me to see what I was doing, but eventually, some of their advice actually worked. (The best advice I've used:
1. Exit in the sit position! (Back to the blast)
2. Keep your feet FLAT to the earth;
3. Always think about getting that feeling of the air between your back and the container....
Well, after months of playing with this stuff, including attempting and eventually mastering the Stand, and still working on a lame heaD dowN, I have finally mastered the sit. The above suggestions got me there is a very SHORT time....
What about RW? Opinion: I am a better than average RW (floater for sure) guy when it comes to maintaining the proper relative position and descent control. I believe very strongly that it was the awareness bonus from FreeFly that got me here. I sucked big time and was totally uninterested in RW Belley before doing FreeFly.
I have developed an awareness of my relative position in the flight line that I doubt I could have done with Belly RW.
I have FUN on every skydive, and don't require all that tense time drilling and such before a jump. I am totally a NON-competitive person, an old fart, and just wanna have fun with this new passion of skydiving.
FreeFly is the Juice.

[Levin 0]

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ok, i just couldn't help but reply, because i totally disagree with the conventional advice that RW Belly must be mastered before FreeFly.

i also disagree with that advice. however for those that do learn those belly skills first may find them beneficial later on down the road. for example the hybrid dives that we have been doin lately. they require everbody (including freeflyers) to be on their belly for 1/3 - 1/2 the dive. we have been taking 4-way belly base out followed by the hangers diving first followed by the stingers last. the hangers flying on their bellys dock on the 4-way, take chest strap grips and then stand it up. the stingers have to fly their slot on their belly behind the person they are going to dock on. regardless of how good a freeflyer you are, if you cannot fly your slot on your belly you are not invited. another example would be the new uspa 3-d millineium award or whatever it's called. so point is belly skills, although not neccesary for freeflying, can be a plus to have.
levin
grat#40
vSCR#pending

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I agree with Levin, and I have said it here before..... Take a look at the freefly footage from the nationals, and see just how much belly flying is now being incorporated into 3D flying.
Cya
D
GR# 37
"I don't believe that kindness is a weakness"