jjudd 0 #26 November 8, 2011 Though only a handful I don't want to become the statistic when someone snags a D Ring when they become unstable unintentional or not. A hard pull on a main after a freefly jump or any furthermore is bad enough, now add a reserve thats meant to open fast while freeflying. F That S*(T!!! I think that is really the only benefit to the pillows besides look. But well worth it and its just another reason to have a rsl and or skyhook and aad. All can always be deactivated for the jumps necessary and when it saves your life youll be thankful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 471 #27 November 8, 2011 Quote Quote What if the pillow had a small ring behind it that we could get a thumb or finger or two in there? I want the best of both worlds. Trying to get a thumb or finger(s) through a small ring while fighting a wild spinning mal would probably be a bit pf a chore. What "best" is there with pillow handles anyway? Anti-snag? The amount of unintentional reserve pulls on ring handles across the world in the last 20 years can probably be counted on one hand. I've been jumping for 26 years and don't personally know of a single one. On the other hand I got my cutaway handle stripped clean in freefall one day. It's a pillow handle, of course. Didn't an AFF instructor get killed on exit because of a floating reserve handle? That said I prefer the traditional handle.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #28 November 8, 2011 Quote Quote Quote What if the pillow had a small ring behind it that we could get a thumb or finger or two in there? I want the best of both worlds. Trying to get a thumb or finger(s) through a small ring while fighting a wild spinning mal would probably be a bit pf a chore. What "best" is there with pillow handles anyway? Anti-snag? The amount of unintentional reserve pulls on ring handles across the world in the last 20 years can probably be counted on one hand. I've been jumping for 26 years and don't personally know of a single one. On the other hand I got my cutaway handle stripped clean in freefall one day. It's a pillow handle, of course. Didn't an AFF instructor get killed on exit because of a floating reserve handle? That said I prefer the traditional handle. Could be, but as I mentioned in my post, I've jumped a ring reserve handle my entire career, yet it was my pillw-style cutaway cable that got stripped in freefall once. Based solely on my personal experience, rings don't get accidentally pulled any more often than pillows.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #29 November 9, 2011 any news about the gear used ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zymurdoo 0 #30 November 9, 2011 I did not see the jumper around the DZ when I returned last weekend. Sorry. I will ask the next time I see him.Blue Skies, Soft Docks and Happy Landings! CWR #23 (It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #31 November 9, 2011 Quoteany news about the gear used ? I talked to the jumper. The only important part of the discussion was him jumping with a wrist injury that prevented full control and a pillow handle. Without the wrist injury he might have been fine. Without the pillow handle he might have been fine. With the wrist injury and a pillow handle, he was lucky to have an AAD. I watched him from cutaway till reserve PC launch.... I was already making mental notes for the accident report."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kd5xb 1 #32 November 9, 2011 QuoteI warned people about pillow reserve handles when they first came out for this very reason. The same thing could happen if a jumpers hands were disabled in freefall. I like the idea of being able to just get a thumb through the handle and yank. I had EXACTLY that happen on a Thunderbow/Crossbow many years ago. It was COLD -- 20 below at 7500 feet, and we got out somewhere about 10,000 -- and when it was time to pull, I couldn't move my fingers!@ The "thumb through the handle" works.I'm a jumper. Even though I don't always have money for jumps, and may not ever own a rig again, I'll always be a jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #33 November 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteany news about the gear used ? I talked to the jumper. The only important part of the discussion was him jumping with a wrist injury that prevented full control and a pillow handle. Without the wrist injury he might have been fine. Without the pillow handle he might have been fine. With the wrist injury and a pillow handle, he was lucky to have an AAD. I watched him from cutaway till reserve PC launch.... I was already making mental notes for the accident report.As was written originally, he had a VERY short reserve ride. Was it a more normal ride(around 15 seconds), or the 3 seconds originally reported ? If normal, then nothing to learn. If super short, I would be intzerested in knowing the configuration which lead to such a short flight.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #34 November 9, 2011 I have witnessed an AAD save before also. And it's dirty dirty low! I didn't count the seconds but 15 isn't much. Either way the big lesson is don't jump if you don't have a 100% use of both hands. Yes you could loose the use of a hand while in freefall but that isn't the same as deciding to jump when you know you are not a 100% capable of pulling your reserve handle. One is planned and the other isn't. It's not worth the added risk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #35 November 9, 2011 QuoteI have witnessed an AAD save before also. And it's dirty dirty low! I didn't count the seconds but 15 isn't much. I have lived one from teh inside, had 13 seconds, and was deemed rather short by people from Airtec. But that was because my reserve PC had to find a way through the mess of lines of the main.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #36 November 9, 2011 QuoteAs was written originally, he had a VERY short reserve ride. Was it a more normal ride(around 15 seconds), or the 3 seconds originally reported ? More normal IMO. It SEEMED short, but that is due to time twisting in high stress than the actual event. As I stated, I was watching and making mental notes. He opened and went behind some buildings (from my perspective). He was quite a distance away and that makes someone look lower due to perspective. The lesson is really to not jump when you are hurt."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #37 November 9, 2011 QuoteQuoteAs was written originally, he had a VERY short reserve ride. Was it a more normal ride(around 15 seconds), or the 3 seconds originally reported ? More normal IMO. It SEEMED short, but that is due to time twisting in high stress than the actual event. The lesson is really to not jump when you are hurt.OK, thanks for the clarification.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #38 November 9, 2011 Quote Without the wrist injury he might have been fine. Without the pillow handle he might have been fine. With the wrist injury and a pillow handle, he was lucky to have an AAD. +1Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #39 November 9, 2011 Would be interested to know if the jumper tried to pull with the other hand or not."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3mpire 0 #40 November 10, 2011 QuoteWhat "best" is there with pillow handles anyway? Anti-snag? The amount of unintentional reserve pulls on ring handles across the world in the last 20 years can probably be counted on one hand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b_Pd7V92uU I'm not disagreeing with your point in general, but there is is at least *one* documented case of a d-ring snag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #41 November 10, 2011 Quote there is is at least *one* documented case of a d-ring snag. It's fortunate that there were so many cameras on that dive, or this event may have gone undocumented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #42 November 10, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhat "best" is there with pillow handles anyway? Anti-snag? The amount of unintentional reserve pulls on ring handles across the world in the last 20 years can probably be counted on one hand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b_Pd7V92uU I'm not disagreeing with your point in general, but there is is at least *one* documented case of a d-ring snag. Without even looking at the video I don't disagree, but as I said in my previous post, I don't believe there is any evidence that ring handles have any greater propensity to be snagged than pillows have to be grabbed. Maybe it's because we are subconsciously more careful to stay clear of reserve handles, but I personally know of many more accidental cutaways (myself included) than accidental reserve pulls.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
