What would be the best way to approach a headown position?

[Rookeskydiver 0]

What would be the best way to approach a headown position? From a sit position? Im really comfortable with my sit and i heard the cartweheal maneuver works good.

PCSS # 1 Rookeskydiver
"Its a Wonka Bar"....."Go ahead Charlie open it, lets see that golden ticket"

[AggieDave 6]

You can do the cartwheel transition, or you can roll forward like you were going to do a flip, or you can launch a headdown out the door...there are quite a few ways. When I asked him the same question, Max Cohn told me to do the cartwheel transition. Try it, find something that works for you.

Also, do a search in this forum, its been talked about before, there were some good posts about it you'd probably like to read.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Rookeskydiver 0]

siiick, thanks brow, i'll be tworking on that this weekend

PCSS # 1 Rookeskydiver
"Its a Wonka Bar"....."Go ahead Charlie open it, lets see that golden ticket"

[Kris 0]

The cartwheel move is the best way to do it because it allows you to keep a visual reference of the other people on your dive. If you do a flip to enable the transition you will lose sight of the person(s) in front of you.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[rmcvey 0]

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siiick, thanks brow, i'll be tworking on that this weekend

I might do a bit of tworking myself this weekend!

[oosskis 0]

Try it alone first

"Bodygolfing" isn't as much fun as it sounds. People get pissed when you don't replace your divets.

[genfreefly 0]

alright, i've been sucked into these forums...i hope you're all happy (and some maybe not...) maybe i'll get off newbie status one day

i agree with doing a head down transition from sit. When learning to fly, heading (visual reference point) is SUPER important.

if you don't have a controlled heading, then you've got nothin'

like the other person said, if you flip front or back, you'll be looking to other way.

if you cartwheel (well, 1/2 cartwheel actually) to head down from a sit, KEEP your reference point, even if you are alone (look at a cloud, a point on the horizon, something), if you loose your heading
it means you are not really in control anymore, go back to a sit. take a breath, regain a heading, then try another transition.

If you keep loosing your heading, then that's a good place to start.. Try to figure out 'how' you are loosing your heading. 'are you falling back, forward, left or right, or whatever'

then you have a starting point towards getting a heading.

another quick tip: transition from sit to head VERY SLOWLY, two reasons
1) you'll have less momentem, and less chance of over rotation, which will just make things harder to figure out

2) you'll literally have MORE time (cause you are doing it slower) to THINK about how the wind and your body feels..

don't think you have to do a FAST transition. your body will go upside down. ther is no need to 'JAM OUT' as transition really fast, save that for later..

hope this helps...
max

[eugeneskydiver 0]

i agree completely. either launch the headdown or do a cartwheel. if you do a flip and don't complete the 180% then your now in a bad situation, but not as bad as the person who is right in front of you.

[AggieDave 6]

I said do a flip under the assumption that it would be a solo dive. No one to run into if you don't complete the manuver.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kris 0]

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I said do a flip under the assumption that it would be a solo dive. No one to run into if you don't complete the manuver.

I can definitely see doing that, but wouldn't it be better to build the muscle memory for what you'll actually need to use when flying with others?

One thing that really discouraged me when trying to make the cartwheel transition from sit to HD was that I was never able to lock it. I would always over or under rotate.

Then I realized I was trying to just crank out the transition too fast. I spent several jumps doing it in "slo-mo" and it really helped me feel how the wind was hitting my body during the transition and how to use it to complete it.

Just my $0.02,

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[TheMonkey 0]

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but wouldn't it be better to build the muscle memory for what you'll actually need to use when flying with others?

transitions should be approached like when you first learn freeflying....by yourself in the air! it's no good if you try to transition to hd, cork, and get pummelled by someone...muscle memory won't do a thing if you are in the hospital b/c a human missile impaled you at 150+mph! imo

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Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

[AggieDave 6]

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muscle memory won't do a thing if you are in the hospital b/c a human missile impaled you at 150+mph! imo

No, but I'm sure it would be one hell of a video...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[psw097 0]

You'll be ok as long as you protect your spleen.

[freakous 0]

Spleen's are hard to come by, ya don't want just any damn monkey tossing it around like poo!

[blueshrew 0]

For some people it's very confusing to try and transition into headdown to learn headdown. If you can't do it, how are you supposed to be able to transition into it? try launching it, or I read this somewhere: on your belly dearch, that should flip you on your back, but in that you will pass a headdown position, then arch, that will flip you back to your belly. keep doing that until you find "the spot", you will eventually not have to wait all the way till you're on your belly or back. haven't tried it, but it seemed to get the guy going in about 15 jumps. but have someone tell you when to best exit.

[Rookeskydiver 0]

ive been working on my headown transitions from my sit and stand. bu the problem is when i start to do the catwheel transition and cant stop myself from doing just 1/2 a cartwheel, i end up doin the full cartwheel. do i have to what people call "grab the air" to stop my momentum?

PCSS # 1 Rookeskydiver
"Its a Wonka Bar"....."Go ahead Charlie open it, lets see that golden ticket"

[AggieDave 6]

I've been doing the same thing with the transitions, what I figured out is that you have to stop about 1/4 of the way into it (1/2 way to a HD). Kick you legs out and get them big.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[TheMonkey 0]

anticipate it, like when doing flips during AFF, pull out of flip at right time in order to avoid over-rotation....this also helps, think of transitions like having sex, if you pull out too late, you're f*cked!

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Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

[Rookeskydiver 0]

thanks AggieDave for the advice and thanks for the good analogy monkey

PCSS # 1 Rookeskydiver
"Its a Wonka Bar"....."Go ahead Charlie open it, lets see that golden ticket"

[Skyrose7 0]

uhh, how do you cartwheel? I have an idea, but not sure.. drop arm and lean into it the way you want to go?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The mind is like a parachute--it works better when it is open. JUMP.
MaryRose

[AggieDave 6]

Just rotate your body, like you were trying to do a cartwheel on the ground. Don't think about it yet, just go do it. I bet you'll do it on your first or second try.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kris 0]

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Just rotate your body, like you were trying to do a cartwheel on the ground. Don't think about it yet, just go do it. I bet you'll do it on your first or second try.

That actually worked for me, but without all the hand-reaching requred on the ground.

Mary, it's also very important to focus on how the air "feels" on the different parts of your body as you move. Feel where the pressure is at and how it interacts with you.

Another good tip: Don't try to crank out a 1-second cartwheel. Take your time, make it slow, keep your awareness of what is going on and how it feels (there's that word again) when you do it.

After a few of those with no problems you'll be able to turn it into a snap transition with no sweat.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[dreamsville 0]

Be careful about launching a headdown if you are not used to it and are by yourself. The advantage of a sit exit for beginners is the establishment of a cross-jump-run heading first. Max Cohn talks about this in his piece.

From coaching I have received from the best in the biz, they will tell you the same thing as the above. Max's piece also reminds me that I have not been working on the SLOW TRANSITION bit enough (thanks!). At my stage, when I hurry it my transitions are almost always less steady.

Harry

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[Skyrose7 0]

Thanks guys. I was going to try it today at the dz, but we got weathered out right as I got there. I guess I will have to wait till ELOY. AH, it's only a few weeks away. My freefly suit tried to come in yesterday though(no one home). So, if anyone wants to jump with a freefly amateur in Eloy......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The mind is like a parachute--it works better when it is open. JUMP.
MaryRose

[skymama 37]

Max, I'm so glad you've been sucked in to the forums! Was it our charming personalities, or the fact that we seemed to need so much help?

I have a question. I've done many, many head down solos working on stability and on transitions. So, the last few jumps I've done, I've done with one other person at a time for reference. They said I looked real stable (yea!), but they also said I was backsliding a little. How do I compensate for that?

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon