Returning gear : refund or replacement?

[skreamer 1]

Hi all

I recently bought a new skydiving item. When I received it, I inspected it and found some faults. I immediately returned it (next working day) without jumping it and asked for a refund.

I was then told that I had accidentally been sent a damaged ex-demo item instead of a new one. I was then also told they operated a no-refund policy and would only supply a replacement not a refund. I was never told of a no-refund policy and it is not mentioned in any documentation nor on their web-site.

Am I entitled to a refund or do I have to accept a replacement? I do not wish to be a customer of this company (I don't care much for their 'customer service').

Will

PS please do not ask for details - at this stage I am still swapping emails with the company, just want to know if I have a valid case asking for refund rather than replacement.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I take it from your profile that your in England - therefore they have to give you a full refund. It is iligal for them to refuse to. Section 13 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that goods must be as described. They described the canopy as being new, it must be new. If it is not, you are entitled to repuditate the contract and they owe you all your money back, and any postage you may have spent.

I can't speek for other countries, but if they are here, they cannot do what they are trying to.

[skreamer 1]

I am in UK, company isn't. Does this affect my rights?

Will

PS don't assume it is a canopy - not relevant to the problem

[falxori 0]

its a big question of where you are and where the company is.

her in israel , for example, ANY deal that is done remotely (phone, catalog, internet) where the customer can't inspect the item before buying, is cancel able within 14 business days.

i assume (i'm no legal mind...) that in your case, the local law of where the company is, is valid.

its mainly an issue of good customer care .
if they still refuse, just post the details here, nothing will scare them more than bad publicity...

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[mr2mk1g 10]

It will depend on what the contract says - check there website for standard terms etc. If either one of you nominated a legal system under which the contract will be carried out then that is the one that rules (look for a term likle "this contract will be governed by BLANK law")

In the absence of such a term - then the law of the country in which the buyer is resident applies. So english law - they must send you a refund. (if you want to get technical thats Artical 5 paragraph 4 of the Rome Convention. )

If there is a term nominating a foreign jurisdiction then it becomes more complicated, but may still be avoided. Besides I think most countries have rules similar to English law in relation to sale by description.

If you have any more probs PM me and let me know the county where the canopy comes from and I'll have a look at what their laws say.

[ScottishJohn 25]

Did you pay by credit card ?

If so get your CC company involved to get your money back, they may have more luck.

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If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers

[skreamer 1]

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Did you pay by credit card ?

Visa debit card.

[kevin922 0]

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Did you pay by credit card ?

Visa debit card.

I'm dealing with a company right now, I bought a product on my visa check card they shipped it via USPS (us postal service) and managed to either send it to the wrong address or USPS lost it. They are being total jackasses about sending me a replacement product, so my bank said come in and fill out a form explaining what i've done to try and resolve this and they'd refund my money..

don't know how your bank is..

[AndyMan 7]

If something like this happened to me, I would be publicly flogging that company on the internet until they both offered me a refund AND and apology - the apology for lieing to me about their inability to give refunds, never mind lieing about the condition of their products.

If they do not change their story quickly, please, PLEASE tell us who they are so that we can all avoid them like the plague.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[EricTheRed 0]

Visa debit cards are EVIL. They get your $$ direct so in a case like this there is little incentive to resolve the issue quickly since they already have your money. (this also is the case for fraud)

You are out the cash until the issue is resolved. This can take a couple of months.

If you use a "regular" credit card, they don't have your $$, and will defer and payment required on teh disputed amount untill the issue is resolved (i.e. you keep the cash) since they (the credit card co.) don't have any of the $$ yet, they tend to work a little quicker to resolve the issue.

My 2 cent from direct experiance.

illegible usually

[SpinDoctor 0]

yuo might still be covered... check it out with your bank / issuer!

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Connextion: British 8 Way Team
www.bodyflight.co.uk
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[SpinDoctor 0]

woo hooo!

I just love the interent
yeah.... expose them for the bitches they are... allegedly ...

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Connextion: British 8 Way Team
www.bodyflight.co.uk
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[slotperfect 7]

If you think you would be satified with the correct version of the item, I would accept the replacement and ask them to throw in a goody or two (t-shirt, patch, stickers, etc) to make it up to you.

If you are simply not satisfied with the company/product altogether, I would stick to my guns and ask them for your money back.

I work through a dealer, Sky Kat, who treats me with respect, and stands behind what they sell. I have every confidence that despite the occasional manufacturer's mistake, I'm going to get what I asked for.

[End shameless plug]

Arrive Safely

John

[SCR10480 0]

Yes, by all means tell the rest of us who they are! The internet has made the world a very small place, and skydiving has made us a very small group of consumers. None of us can afford to take any risks on ANY piece of equipment...I don't care if it's just a pull up cord! Tell those snakes that you're going to expose their business practices on DZ.com and the word will spread faster than an easy girl's phone number!

[skreamer 1]

Well, three months later and I finally got my money back (a big thank you to LloydsTSB's Card & Credit Operations). I can't really say that I agree with these 'customers' : rocketfrommars, patblack and jp001. Rather sad that a gear manufacter (that advertises on this web-site) should be caught out pretending to be their own customers, singing the praises of their products in posts and reviews. When the fraud was exposed (via IP address) the posts were deleted but the reviews weren't.

Kharma works.
Will

[skreamer 1]

He's been at it again.

Most of you would've missed it because this time the thread was completely deleted (bust via IP address, again). The fake user account he used this time was flyinnorway.

Does it bother anybody else that a gear manufacturer (that advertises on this web-site) has repeatedly made fake reviews and posts posing as his own customers? JP, care to shed some light on this for us?

Will

[mr2mk1g 10]

I don’t have much respect for a company that actively carries out this sort of misinformation. First be sure it’s the company, not simply someone who really likes their products.

This isn’t something I’m fully familiar with, but a place to start could be complaining to the Advertising Standards Agency – here: http://www.asa.org.uk/index.asp

They’re a UK agency but they do deal with misleading web advertising and any boarder line activity such as this that might otherwise fall outside the ordinary definition of "advertising". They have agreements with their Spanish equivalent through the European Advertising Standards Agency so if you start a complaint through the ASA it is likely to be passed on through to the Spanish agency. If the ASA doesn’t have jurisdiction for whatever reason they say they will help you find out where you should complain instead.

[skreamer 1]

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First be sure it’s the company, not simply someone who really likes their products.

This was proven, the IP address taken from the headers of emails sent to me matched the address all the fake accounts were posting from.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Well I don't think that's acceptable behaviour for manufacturer.

If they lie about who they are when posting or writing a review then who's to say what else they may lie about. Might they lie about a safety issue? – after all they’ve just proved themselves to be liars. Dishonesty such as this is taken very seriously at law and should not be tolerated by a community.

I say, out the company, and complain through official channels. What do others think?

[diablopilot 2]

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JP, care to shed some light on this for us?

It's news to me. I'm pretty unaware of what's transpiring outside my enviorment (read: away from Perris or other demo events.) Production and sales are handled overseas.

I have a demo fleet of Wingsuit that have been generating alot of interest.

I have a couple of Freefly suits, that I have found to be a very nice product.

I'm not sure what you ordered or the problem you had with it, sorry your experience was not enjoyable.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.