MochaSkyChick 0 #1 July 24, 2003 I was wondering how many RW jumps you did before you started Freeflying? At the moment, I have 136 jumps which are a mix of mainly RW jumps and some attempted Freefly jumps. I really want to become disciplined in freeflying but felt that I needed to stay on my belly a while to make sure I can properly fly my body. I’ve heard from several folks @ my drop zone that this is the best policy because do to the increased speed of Freeflying you need to know how you body flies. Since, I’ve tried to set a jump goal before I transition from RW to Freeflying and in the meantime I have been competing in the GSL meets to gain more skill in Relative Work. But I really want to know how many jumps did you wait before you started doing mostly Freefly jumps? I know that the answers may vary since some people take to skydiving like a fish to water while others are on the verge of getting a bowling ball; then there’s everyone in between like myself. Thanks heaps PMS #62 Zarza R[red Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #2 July 24, 2003 Did a "T" and a standup on my first solo. But played with back flying, RW, tracking, and head-down until about 80 or 90 jumps. It was clear that coaching was an absolute must at about 100 jumps. Are you comfortable trusting your altimeter entirely? Can you go through a jump and not look at the ground much? My advise would be to get comfortable on your back while feeling the cause and effect of the air on your body. Learn to use the air to your advantage. And get some coaching as early as possible. Coach jumps (or any kind of ground advise) at first is essential to understanding freefly compared to belly. You will be surprised how much you will learn in the first few sessions with an experienced freeflyer. Not just in what they tell you, or seeing them fly in front of you, but in their approach to a very special discipline. I think you will also be surprised how much the state of mind you are in will effect your flying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #3 July 24, 2003 I had 26 jumps... I never learned how to do rw... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #4 July 24, 2003 I started freeflying right off student status (~25 jumps.) At about 120 jumps I realized that my belly skills sucked (I could not fly my slot on anything bigger than a 4-way) so I decided to go back to flying on my belly. I've been mostly doing RW since then with about 30 CRW jumps and about 20 freefly jumps and am totally loving RW. I definitely believe now that you should have decent belly skills before learning to freefly. I know this isn't exactly what you were asking, but figured I'd share. Enjoy whichever you decide on!Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #5 July 24, 2003 QuoteYes that's a chicken strapped to me. What? You've never taken a chicken tandem before?!??!? Sorry Ari, been there, done that... see attached. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MochaSkyChick 0 #6 July 24, 2003 QuoteI definitely believe now that you should have decent belly skills before learning to freefly. I know this isn't exactly what you were asking, but figured I'd share. I appreciate any and all input. Statements like this let me know that some do feel that more time spent on RW will in turn build skills needed for Freeflying. Thanks PMS #62 Zarza R[red Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #7 July 24, 2003 Don't have my logbook handy, but I probably did 5 or 6 sit attempts between jump 40 and 80. Around the 80 jump mark I had a "sit weekend" and did 7 sit jumps in a row until I had staying upright and stable nailed. I've probably done a half dozen more since then (50 jumps total). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronnie 0 #8 July 24, 2003 Started right off student status! It also works the other way around, free flying helps you learn RW. You have to rememeer that being on your belly is actually one dimension of free flying. They all help each other! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #9 July 24, 2003 i had about 800 or 850 before i started. what can i say, i was from a little dz, we didn't know how to get started. then i looked at pictures and videos, and went out and did 4 ways attempting to sit. we weren't too smart. but i would say if your confortable with your tracking skills, and if you are aware of everyting in freefall, then you'll be fine. get yourself a audible before you start *if you don't already have one. they are a good backup. but don't depend on it, or your visual altimeter. use your eyes, they are the best thing. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #10 July 24, 2003 It's definitely a good idea to gain belly skills before starting freeflying. I've jumped with people who could sit, but upon separation just tracked on the spot. Such people in an 8 way and you're in trouble. Bellyflying is the BASICS. But i think @ 130 jumps you should be quite a safe tracker and good enough belly flyer, you don't have to be Arizona airspeed level to start freeflying Started with "sitting around"at about 90-100 jumps myself. Cheers! The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 0 #11 July 24, 2003 did my first sit fly in my coach dives before I got my licence... (I have already met all the requirements and went out with a coach jsut to have some fun...) Never really went back.. I have 408 jumps now and I have done about maybe 20 belly dives since I got my licence. I think that tracking is a must to learn before anything especially if you plan to jump with anyone else... personally I only like to be in "pull position" before I pull..:) -yoshi_________________________________________ this space for rent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #12 July 24, 2003 I think it's great that you chose to get good on your belly before FFing. So many people go straight to FF off student status and i just don't think it's a good idea. Anyhoo, i had about 150ish jumps when i decided to FF. Even though i'm a FF girl, i can still turn points on my belly if i get conned into doing a belly jump. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MochaSkyChick 0 #13 July 24, 2003 QuoteI think it's great that you chose to get good on your belly before FFing. So many people go straight to FF off student status and i just don't think it's a good idea.reply] I'm glad that I decided to stay on my belly a while too. Although, I must admit when I first attempted Freeflying and people at the DZ would tell me, "You should stay on your belly a while” I figured it was because there weren't many Freeflyers and they thought that I was, as some refer to it, "going to the dark side." Luckily I’ve come to understand the concern that we as skydivers have for newbies, oldbies, everybodys and they had my best interest in mind. PMS #62 Zarza R[red Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflybella 0 #14 July 25, 2003 I'm curious to know why - collectively speaking - you think it it's better to stay on your belly awhile before getting off of it? edited: 'awhile' meaning anything beyond falling stable straight down and perfecting your track Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chrisky 0 #15 July 25, 2003 IMHO because its not only about a stable X and proper track, but also being able to do a barrel roll before going X and deploying as well as doing quick turns on your belly (ok, both things are something anybody should know to do from AFF, but...) Only last weekend i heard of 2 flyers who collided during break-off tracking. No serious injuries except one arm broken... Also the awareness "where everybody is" on an n-way takes a while and may be safer to evolve on a flat n-way (or "pizza") just my 2 cents...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chopchop 0 #16 July 25, 2003 I'd like to add that belly-flying skills can be necessary in hybrids.. if you are a hanger, you may need to fly to your slot on your belly, if you are a stinger, you may need to dive to it, stop and hang out on your belly while it completes.. and if it goes awry, it probably will become a belly-way.. chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflydrew 0 #17 July 25, 2003 Is there a distinction here between flying on your belly and learning RW? I see AFF teaching you more about safe deployment position, and how to recover from a front and back flip, and barrel roll, and a little of how to track. I think that once you get your license, your understanding of those basics of skydiving are what make you safe, whether you go freeflying or rw. I believe that learning freefly first will make you a safer rw flier, and at the same time learning rw first will make you a safer freeflyer (there are of course a couple of subtle exceptions to this statement, but it's overall generally true). Either way, it's that basic, elementary heads up understanding of keeping an eye on everyone in your group, having a dive plan including break off and deployment altitudes, maintaining altitude awareness, seperating at pull time, and being a heads up and predictable canopy pilot, which will keep you and everyone around you safe. Choose the discipline you want to learn, the one that interests and intrigues you the most. Ask questions, watch video, and of course, listen to your fellow skydivers. Just don't forgot those basic and extremely important things that you learned as a student, and continue to learn each time you jump. RW or Freefly... it really doesn't matter. -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites callahan 0 #18 July 25, 2003 At our dropzone they wanted you to have at least 50 jumps until you got into it . I started learning how to sit around 70 jumps . I went out alone for about 40 jumps until I felt confident enough to do a two way and not take the other person out . I usually stay with two ways now just to be on the safe side . Things happen very fast up there . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakydiver 0 #19 July 25, 2003 I waited 25 jumps and started sitting. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflybella 0 #20 July 26, 2003 You're point about <> is exactly the origin of my question. Once off AFF, you need to maintain the ability to get stable from any position, fall straight down (whether on your belly, feet or head), be altitude aware and perfect your track. <> Regardless of whether you're on your belly or learning to freefly, you shouldn't be doing anything more than a solo or 2-way until those first things are second-nature. And to be honest, it's much easier to look around the sky from a sit position than a belly position. To tell someone that they 'should' stay on their belly for a few hundred jumps before getting off of it doesn't make sense to me. You're more confident that you can recover from 'unstable' positions as well as being free to play in the air. Safety is a HUGE factor - again, falling straight down, learning to track, being altitude aware, knowing your flight line, etc. THOSE are the basics. Our dz requires students to do 2 freefly jumps from USPA rated freefly coaches and 3 Skydive U. jumps as part of an extended AFF program (level 8) - they learn about freefly friendly gear, speed differences, suggestions on progression to jumping with others, etc. And then they do a backflying jump and a sit/track jump. I guess I'm just curious how other dzs represent freefly and the general thought process. Personally, I didn't start freeflying until I had 250 jumps - but that was 7 years ago. I hadn't even 'heard' of freefly until I saw AK Jon and Mike Swanson at Sebastian. It was pretty brand-new. But I've been around a dz with tons of freeflyers and part of a freefly school (not a coach) for 5 years now - and I know that if were just starting in the sport, I'd be on my back, my feet, my head and my knees right from the start! And would be encouraged to do so! I also hope that no one mistakes "freeflying" with "freeflying with others". Go do a bunch of solos - you're still freeflying! Just make yourself safe before you subject anyone else to your ability, no matter what your discipline. (One caveat: the higher speeds in a vertical position require that you should get 'some' coaching at the start.) I would just hate to think that someone out there who wanted to 'learn' to really fly didn't feel like they could. At whatever level. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #21 July 28, 2003 I experimented with sit flying and head down as early as jump #13. Mostly just when I was stuck doing a solo for some reason. It wasn't until about jump #50 that I got more serious about it. By 110-120 jumps I was comfortable on my head. Now at 350 or 360+ I'm still learning. Still trying to learn to fly slower but it's a process...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Levin 0 #22 August 1, 2003 I had about 200 RW jumps and about 50 jumps videoing 4-way before I started freeflying. Watched Choinicles3 and haven't hardly been on my belly since. I recommend doing some belly flying before starting out freeflying. IMO, on average most skydivers do not become truly aware until around 500 jumps. For most new jumpers just the fact that they are falling thru the sky is enough distraction. AFF teaches the very basics of body flight and how to successfully deploy parachute. After AFF it may still take a new skydiver 1/2 dozen jumps or more to successfully learn each of these basic skills such as in place 360 degree turns and barrell rolls. To throw yourself straight into freeflying is to put yourself straight into an evironment where stability cannot be achieved naturally or by simply arching. To successfully learn these new body positions requires a heightened level of awareness of how the air works against your body. The basics may take as many as a dozen or more jumps to learn body position and maintane headding. Possibly 50 more jumps to develop stability and then 100's to dial it in. I propose that someone with 50 jumps all on their belly whom has set goals and dedicated most all of their jumps to learning would be in a better position to learn freeflying than someone just off student status. And I also propose that that same person would learn more from their next 50 jumps than someone just off of student status. By spending the first few jumps on your belly a new skydiver will more quickly and easily learn the basics of body flight and develop better awareness in a slower, relaxed, more natural feeling environment. By 50 jumps a new skydiver that has set goals and dedicated their jumps to learning should be ready for 2-ways with other skydivers. In the belly environment the new skydiver will more safely and easily develop the skills to be aware of another person in freefall and at the same time be aware of the air on their own body so that they may fly relative to another jumper. At this point I think someone would be ready to start learning to freefly. After starting freeflying I think it would be best to wait until you had about 150 to 200 freefly jumps before attempting headdown. Being upside down creates another distraction and requires an even higher level of awareness to successfully master. Levin vSCR#17 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shaggydog 0 #23 August 1, 2003 I am a newcomer from the UK I have around 40 jumps, I have always wanted to freefly even before my 1st jump( looks sooo cool) but I am told that I have to gain my b license and FS1 before I even think about a sit jump. Is this strictly true or are the rules different in the US as some of you chaps talk about freeflying on your 1st solo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 74 #24 August 4, 2003 I had about 150 flat jumps (about 100 RW) when I first got some coaching on sitting...haven't realy tried any serieous head-down yet... I'm not in a hurry to learn everything....JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #25 August 4, 2003 yes mate, it is true - in the uk there are much more strict rules re free flying. You do have to have at least cat10 b4 free flying and then it may only be with someone with ff1 so they can coach you. In the us you can pretty much do what you want. Virtually everyone reccomends getting your flat up to standard b4 freeflying anyway though so go ahead and get doing RW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
freeflybella 0 #14 July 25, 2003 I'm curious to know why - collectively speaking - you think it it's better to stay on your belly awhile before getting off of it? edited: 'awhile' meaning anything beyond falling stable straight down and perfecting your track Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #15 July 25, 2003 IMHO because its not only about a stable X and proper track, but also being able to do a barrel roll before going X and deploying as well as doing quick turns on your belly (ok, both things are something anybody should know to do from AFF, but...) Only last weekend i heard of 2 flyers who collided during break-off tracking. No serious injuries except one arm broken... Also the awareness "where everybody is" on an n-way takes a while and may be safer to evolve on a flat n-way (or "pizza") just my 2 cents...The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chopchop 0 #16 July 25, 2003 I'd like to add that belly-flying skills can be necessary in hybrids.. if you are a hanger, you may need to fly to your slot on your belly, if you are a stinger, you may need to dive to it, stop and hang out on your belly while it completes.. and if it goes awry, it probably will become a belly-way.. chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #17 July 25, 2003 Is there a distinction here between flying on your belly and learning RW? I see AFF teaching you more about safe deployment position, and how to recover from a front and back flip, and barrel roll, and a little of how to track. I think that once you get your license, your understanding of those basics of skydiving are what make you safe, whether you go freeflying or rw. I believe that learning freefly first will make you a safer rw flier, and at the same time learning rw first will make you a safer freeflyer (there are of course a couple of subtle exceptions to this statement, but it's overall generally true). Either way, it's that basic, elementary heads up understanding of keeping an eye on everyone in your group, having a dive plan including break off and deployment altitudes, maintaining altitude awareness, seperating at pull time, and being a heads up and predictable canopy pilot, which will keep you and everyone around you safe. Choose the discipline you want to learn, the one that interests and intrigues you the most. Ask questions, watch video, and of course, listen to your fellow skydivers. Just don't forgot those basic and extremely important things that you learned as a student, and continue to learn each time you jump. RW or Freefly... it really doesn't matter. -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
callahan 0 #18 July 25, 2003 At our dropzone they wanted you to have at least 50 jumps until you got into it . I started learning how to sit around 70 jumps . I went out alone for about 40 jumps until I felt confident enough to do a two way and not take the other person out . I usually stay with two ways now just to be on the safe side . Things happen very fast up there . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #19 July 25, 2003 I waited 25 jumps and started sitting. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #20 July 26, 2003 You're point about <> is exactly the origin of my question. Once off AFF, you need to maintain the ability to get stable from any position, fall straight down (whether on your belly, feet or head), be altitude aware and perfect your track. <> Regardless of whether you're on your belly or learning to freefly, you shouldn't be doing anything more than a solo or 2-way until those first things are second-nature. And to be honest, it's much easier to look around the sky from a sit position than a belly position. To tell someone that they 'should' stay on their belly for a few hundred jumps before getting off of it doesn't make sense to me. You're more confident that you can recover from 'unstable' positions as well as being free to play in the air. Safety is a HUGE factor - again, falling straight down, learning to track, being altitude aware, knowing your flight line, etc. THOSE are the basics. Our dz requires students to do 2 freefly jumps from USPA rated freefly coaches and 3 Skydive U. jumps as part of an extended AFF program (level 8) - they learn about freefly friendly gear, speed differences, suggestions on progression to jumping with others, etc. And then they do a backflying jump and a sit/track jump. I guess I'm just curious how other dzs represent freefly and the general thought process. Personally, I didn't start freeflying until I had 250 jumps - but that was 7 years ago. I hadn't even 'heard' of freefly until I saw AK Jon and Mike Swanson at Sebastian. It was pretty brand-new. But I've been around a dz with tons of freeflyers and part of a freefly school (not a coach) for 5 years now - and I know that if were just starting in the sport, I'd be on my back, my feet, my head and my knees right from the start! And would be encouraged to do so! I also hope that no one mistakes "freeflying" with "freeflying with others". Go do a bunch of solos - you're still freeflying! Just make yourself safe before you subject anyone else to your ability, no matter what your discipline. (One caveat: the higher speeds in a vertical position require that you should get 'some' coaching at the start.) I would just hate to think that someone out there who wanted to 'learn' to really fly didn't feel like they could. At whatever level. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #21 July 28, 2003 I experimented with sit flying and head down as early as jump #13. Mostly just when I was stuck doing a solo for some reason. It wasn't until about jump #50 that I got more serious about it. By 110-120 jumps I was comfortable on my head. Now at 350 or 360+ I'm still learning. Still trying to learn to fly slower but it's a process...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #22 August 1, 2003 I had about 200 RW jumps and about 50 jumps videoing 4-way before I started freeflying. Watched Choinicles3 and haven't hardly been on my belly since. I recommend doing some belly flying before starting out freeflying. IMO, on average most skydivers do not become truly aware until around 500 jumps. For most new jumpers just the fact that they are falling thru the sky is enough distraction. AFF teaches the very basics of body flight and how to successfully deploy parachute. After AFF it may still take a new skydiver 1/2 dozen jumps or more to successfully learn each of these basic skills such as in place 360 degree turns and barrell rolls. To throw yourself straight into freeflying is to put yourself straight into an evironment where stability cannot be achieved naturally or by simply arching. To successfully learn these new body positions requires a heightened level of awareness of how the air works against your body. The basics may take as many as a dozen or more jumps to learn body position and maintane headding. Possibly 50 more jumps to develop stability and then 100's to dial it in. I propose that someone with 50 jumps all on their belly whom has set goals and dedicated most all of their jumps to learning would be in a better position to learn freeflying than someone just off student status. And I also propose that that same person would learn more from their next 50 jumps than someone just off of student status. By spending the first few jumps on your belly a new skydiver will more quickly and easily learn the basics of body flight and develop better awareness in a slower, relaxed, more natural feeling environment. By 50 jumps a new skydiver that has set goals and dedicated their jumps to learning should be ready for 2-ways with other skydivers. In the belly environment the new skydiver will more safely and easily develop the skills to be aware of another person in freefall and at the same time be aware of the air on their own body so that they may fly relative to another jumper. At this point I think someone would be ready to start learning to freefly. After starting freeflying I think it would be best to wait until you had about 150 to 200 freefly jumps before attempting headdown. Being upside down creates another distraction and requires an even higher level of awareness to successfully master. Levin vSCR#17 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shaggydog 0 #23 August 1, 2003 I am a newcomer from the UK I have around 40 jumps, I have always wanted to freefly even before my 1st jump( looks sooo cool) but I am told that I have to gain my b license and FS1 before I even think about a sit jump. Is this strictly true or are the rules different in the US as some of you chaps talk about freeflying on your 1st solo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #24 August 4, 2003 I had about 150 flat jumps (about 100 RW) when I first got some coaching on sitting...haven't realy tried any serieous head-down yet... I'm not in a hurry to learn everything....JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #25 August 4, 2003 yes mate, it is true - in the uk there are much more strict rules re free flying. You do have to have at least cat10 b4 free flying and then it may only be with someone with ff1 so they can coach you. In the us you can pretty much do what you want. Virtually everyone reccomends getting your flat up to standard b4 freeflying anyway though so go ahead and get doing RW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
