Help with a spectre

[andybr6 0]

I recently bought a second hand Mirage which was my first ever rig purchase. In it there is a spectre 210, i love the canopy i think it flies and lands great but i am having trouble with the openings. I realise they are slow openers and as such have to be packed for a faster opwing, the last time i packed it i shoved the nose into the pack job a LITTLE and rolled the tail LOOSLEY a about 3 times. I did not roll the nose in and i quatered the slider. I double stowed all the lines except the mouth lock which are the only two on my d-bag where the bungees come through the lid of the bag. After a normal freefall i deloyed at 4000 ft. When my canopy was open i was at just under 3000ft, allowing for inaccuracy in the alti it still took around 1000ft for it to open. I know the pilot chute was properley cocked and that i did a good deployment but the canopy seemed to snivel for ages. I do have a trouble getting the canopy into the bag and have been told that the bag is a little small for the canopy but dont know if this makes much difference. Can anyone please give me any advice to make this open faster?

[Pablito 0]

Dude, that's nice opening. I love those long openings. but if you don't like the, don't shave the nose and roll the tail lose again, Don't double stow your rubber bands, and use small ones.
I hope that helps, I could be evil and tell you to not uncolapse the slider, but that will break your neck So don't do it.
try to do a really clean pro pack or flat pack it.
My 2 cents dude
Cielos Azules
Pablito

"If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first"
Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito

[quade 4]

The opening that you have described is pretty much the way most Spectre's normally open. My guess is that the opening was a bit shorter than you think and not actually 1000 feet. Until a person has several jumps on a Spectre, the length of the snivel can be a little unnerving, but it is a very stable and predictable opening and one that I've grown to love.

There is no need whatsoever to do anything special with the nose of the canopy. No need to place the nose into the pack job at all.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[payback462 0]

ive been able to get fast openings out of my spectre by not quartering the slider and making sure the nose isnt tucked in at all, the fact that i have pullout also makes it slightly faster.

ive even had a couple instances when ive dumped in max track and the thing has rocked my world

[dterrick 0]

Hi Andy:

I've recently had demos on Spectre and Sabre2 170's. I agree the opening seems like 1,000 ft and it likely "is" if you account for altitude lost on a "slow-ish pull".

The three portions of a deployment are snatch force, snivel, and inflation. It would help to describe where the problem seems to be. I think your issue is with the snivel part of the opening, ie: you're already snatched upright at line stretch but the slider is not yet traveling down the lines. IF it was a slow snatch force, that' likely a pilot chute issue.

I've read the 3 replies offered so far and I can suggest one or 2 things to try ... these suggestions are the REVERSE of what I've been taught to do to slow own the openings on my Raven 2. Granted mine is a reserve design intended to open fast but hey, they might work for you... ask your rigger before you go making any major changes :

Agreed with others, don't roll or stuff the nose back into the pack job. Messy generally = soft opening.

Be meticulous in pleating the fabric after you;ve picked the nose - no 'trash packing'

When cloverleafing the slider bias the position toward the tail, not the nose - less air will be 'stolen' from the nose openings (....maybe)

Tug EVENLY on the rear risers during the snivel.

Finally, pull several hundred feet higher and enjoy the Cadillac ride.

-Dave

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

the fact that i have pullout also makes it slightly faster.

How? How much faster, and how do you think your pullout makes the opening faster?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[usskydiver 0]

Andy,
You mentioned this was a purchase of used gear. Another factor to consider would be pilot chute age, size, and materials. An e-mail to PD and Mirage would not be out of order. A phone call to John LeBlanc or Rusty Vest is well worth the cost to get you sorted out.

Tim
Maggot

[Chivo 0]

As previous posts, I'd have to say...

-don't quarter the slider
-don't shove the nose

I use small rubber bands, and I don't double stow them.

Another thing that I've noticed... is that it will open faster if you have a bit of forward motion, like a slow track.

~Chivo

[andybr6 0]

Thanks for all the help i will try out the suggestions on the next pack job. I have got one further question though, if you dont quarter the slider what do you do with it? is it just a question of pushing it into the packjob as you would with flat packing?

------------------------------------------------

"All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction"

[rigging65 0]

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the fact that i have pullout also makes it slightly faster.

Generally speaking, using a pullout doesn't really make the deployment any faster. There isn't the delay that you feel as the bridle goes to stretch and pulls the pin then lifts the bag out like on a throw out, but the deployment isn't any faster. It just feels that way because you feel things happening sooner on a pullout...not much sooner, but enough to notice.

Every so often I jump a throwout and I hate that pause before stuff starts happening. I know it's nothing to worry about, and I know it's going to happen every time, but it still makes my heart skip a beat when it does.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[darkwing 5]

In 500 jumps on my Spectre 190 -- I never stuff the nose at all. When it is ready to come out from between your legs, just release it, and wrap the tail.... Great openings.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[ltdiver 3]

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In 500 jumps on my Spectre 190 -- I never stuff the nose at all. When it is ready to come out from between your legs, just release it, and wrap the tail.... Great openings.

On the other side of the coin.

When I got a new pc, my 135 opened so fast I thought it was really going to break my neck! I did everything I could to slow it down....larger stows+double wraps on the bands+rolling the tail more+rolling the nose....NOTHING worked! I had to go back to an older pc for anything to come out nice on deployment.

I also choose my packer very carefully, too (when and if I use one at all). They are all very qualified to pack any canopy and rig, but one will pack that crack opening (even when I ask that it be packed to open slow), and another will pack it with a nice slow opening.

I sat there and watched this slow opening packer pack my rig one day. He folded the nose just slightly on either side of the center cell, then rolled the tail only twice. He double wrapped the (large) rubber bands, and WALLA!!! Beautiful openings every time! I've copied him every since and my openings are beautiful!

But if I pack as the manual says to pack a Spectre, I can guarantee that at least 1/2 of my openings will threaten to break my neck.

My next Spectre will probably have it's own story to figure out... They are not all created equal, ya know.


ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[mouth 0]

I have close to 400 jumps on my Spectre. I don't roll the nose at all. Instead I pull it out slightly and sorta flake it out to catch air and then I only overlap the tail before I cocoon the canopy up for my S folds. I have to be very meticulious when doing this not to upset my lines but it does make for a slightly faster opening. I also try to pull a few hundred feet higher to compensate for the nice slow opening.

I would suggest trying only one thing at a time to speed up your openings. That way when you figure out what works with your baby you'll know how to reproduce it.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[TomBeals 0]

I have about 450 jumps on a Spectre. After a couple of long snivels I changed the way I pack. I do Pro pack. I do not roll the nose. Just let it hang. I pull the slider out the back and sides letting the front just hang down. Since I started packing this way I have not had a loong snivel. But the openings are still soft.

Along with the advice already given I would add that you need to check the condition of your pilot chute. Does make a difference. But if the loong part of the opening is after line stretch the pilot chute has done its job. If you are looking up at a rectangular chute with the slider up and everything just shaking in the breeze then again the pilot chute has done its job.

Like already said. Only change one thing at a time when you are trying out this stuff......

Tom Beals

[shotat 0]

Those slow openings remind me of my first canopy, a sabre 170 with a pocketed slider. It used to snivle like crazy for about 1000 feet and then open right up. It used to scare the hell out of my wife on the ground, she always thought i was going to have a malfunction on every jump.

***How come all the rich kids get to make all of the jumps?***

[alanab 0]

ok, so my new (to me) spectre 170 should be here in a couple weeks. pump me up 7 cell posse!! also, wanted to know the best way to pack it for the first time?

[darkwing 5]

Best way to pack - the way the manufacturer says to.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[goose491 0]

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Thanks for all the help i will try out the suggestions on the next pack job. I have got one further question though, if you dont quarter the slider what do you do with it? is it just a question of pushing it into the packjob as you would with flat packing?

Hi Andy,

My Spectre regularily took about 700ft to open once I got my pack jobs consistent. I was trying to figure out how to word what I do with the slider but Dave has done a pretty good job...

Quote

When cloverleafing the slider bias the position toward the tail, not the nose - less air will be 'stolen' from the nose openings (....maybe)

If you have more slider towards the tail, it has less of a tendancy to 'cup' the air and thusly will come down the lines a bit quicker.

Frankly though I don't see why you need to shorten it up at all, Spectre openings are SO LazyBoy, slow, comfortable... long.

Enjoy :-)
Nick

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[payback462 0]

Quote

There isn't the delay that you feel as the bridle goes to stretch and pulls the pin then lifts the bag out like on a throw out, but the deployment isn't any faster. It just feels that way because you feel things happening sooner on a pullout...not much sooner, but enough to notice.

but wouldnt then the deployment actually be faster (as far as from initiation to line stretch) since there's no delay on waiting for the PC to inflate and pop the pin?

[drenaline 0]

Hey andy, I have a spectre 150 with a wingload of 1.25 and I seriously like those long snivels (I have some neck problems) I usually pack my spectre with about 10 rolls on the nose and it opens in about 1000fts and its great to have that, after you get a couple of slammer from any canopy you will start praying for those 1000fts snivels so don't worry to much just open at 3000fts and everything will be fine.

If you want fast openings you can do what somebody did to me and that was to pack it with only 1 roll on the nose that thing opened very hard and fast or give it to a packer in a very busy DZ, they love to pack fast opening chutes

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com