BMFin 0 #1 November 5, 2003 Does this really effect on your track ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caseadilla 0 #2 November 5, 2003 Palms up gives you a more efficient track in my experience, and it is easier to roll your shoulders in when you do this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #3 November 5, 2003 I think it has nothing to do with palms. if it would be anything about palms, then palms down is definitely better choice. look at your hand, it has a way better profile for pushing air (some would say lift) if palms are turned down. What is different is that if you turn your palms up, arm is almost in the position you want it to be, for best track. all you have to do is push your shoulders up and forward. If you have palms down your arms are, because of skeleton structure, closer to the body and the surface is a little smaller. and the bones just won't let you spread them the way you'd like. unless you're some super nimble. I personally track with palms down, because i feel unstable with palms up. I have to try it more times, but i'm forgetting in every track . Anyway i think that palms up or palms down make a difference only when you already can't improve your track and you're already hauling ass horizontally, but you're still having palms turned down in a track. p.s. tip for another poll: foot spread each pointing in another direction sideways and making more surface. Or foot pointing back thus making less drag from "horizontal wind"?"George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blazetailman 0 #4 November 5, 2003 So why the poll concernining this part of tracking? I'm really interested not trying to be a smart ass.www.canopyflightcenter.com www.skydivesac.com www.guanofreefly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #5 November 5, 2003 Try flying so every possible section of your body. Palms included, counts. Palms up allows for spilling air. Just your hands can make you initiate a 360-turn. I personally initiate Barrel-rolls with my palms against the relative air (and lack-there-of on the opposite side). I would imagine that spinning around without my palms would take much longer and would make it look less graceful. Every part of your body making a directional difference will count in any position you're are flying. Mindset is half of learning this stuff, practice is the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelflying 0 #6 November 6, 2003 fastwww.skydivekzn.co.za Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #7 November 15, 2003 never tried palms up on belly track... happened a few times while getting on my back. Get more lift (and easier to give force with the arms) with palms down (for me at least...)---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #8 November 23, 2003 QuoteDoes this really effect on your track ?? It's more natural to roll your shoulders in when you track palms up, and that _really_ flattens you out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fedykin 0 #9 November 23, 2003 to be quiet honest i think palm up or down suggests that you are focusing on the wrong things, this is relatively unimportant in comparisson to the amount of pressure on your legs and knees, torso angle, balence to feet and head and overall lift your focusing on the wrong things Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #10 November 23, 2003 Quoteto be quiet honest i think palm up or down suggests that you are focusing on the wrong things, this is relatively unimportant in comparisson to the amount of pressure on your legs and knees, torso angle, balence to feet and head and overall lift your focusing on the wrong things This reply was as helpful as all of your reviews. Thanks... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fedykin 0 #11 November 25, 2003 ya know its attitudes like yours that make it glaringly obvious why europe and europeans for that matter have stagnated economically, socially and morally. a bit pathetic really Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #12 November 25, 2003 Keep the personal attacks to PM's both of you. I don't think any of us want to read this nonsense. Smile and the world smiles with you...fart and you stand alone Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #13 November 25, 2003 QuoteQuoteto be quiet honest i think palm up or down suggests that you are focusing on the wrong things, this is relatively unimportant in comparisson to the amount of pressure on your legs and knees, torso angle, balence to feet and head and overall lift your focusing on the wrong things This reply was as helpful as all of your reviews. Thanks... Actually, he's right. Poor spelling but who cares. Palms up or down, doesn't matter. I read the reviews by the way.. they don't pertain to this thread. Flatten yourself out, Really extend the body then press down with the legs. You'll be some what butt high. During a track, my torso is pointed somewhat head low, and my legs are flatter in comparison with the ground. It's very fast.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustin19d 0 #14 January 10, 2004 Palms up. You can look back at your alti much easyer that way(If u dont have an audible) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjuggler 0 #15 January 10, 2004 I agree with what Fedykin is saying, despite his delicate and diplomatic touch as ever!!! I think the main areas to concentrate on are the legs and torso position as well as the angle you intend to track in. To answer the original question of palms up or down, I would say palm of the hand down towards the earth. Also it seems that everyone thinks that the flattest track is the ultimate goal. However I have heard two well argued points of view: will the flattest track with the slowest vertical speed travel further than a faster track slightly below the flat angle. I am not talking about having an inefficient position and diving slightly. Tracking in an angle slightly below flat definately generates more forward speed, but does this horizontal speed equal a greater distance than a slower horizontal speed which will exist for longer?? I personally think that the flattest track is not the most efficient angle for horizontal distance. I believe tracking is like a wing, if you have no speed you stall the position, there has to be a balance between vertical and horizontal speeds. By this I refer to the tracking trajectory, not to someone sinking out by arching and exhibiting an inefficient position with legs and torso. Thoughts please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #16 January 10, 2004 QuoteI believe tracking is like a wing, if you have no speed you stall the position, there has to be a balance between vertical and horizontal speeds. I agree with the idea of a balance between horizontal and vertical speed. QuoteTracking in an angle slightly below flat definately generates more forward speed, but does this horizontal speed equal a greater distance than a slower horizontal speed which will exist for longer?? My observation, from big-way RW, is the skydivers w/ the fastest radial (horizontal)speed from the formation also reach their pull altitude faster on a steeper trajectory than myself and w/ a flatter trajectory I cover more radial (horizontal) distance going to the same assigned pull altitude. From a safety stand point I consider this steeper trajectory track a risk because they also tend to not do a barrel roll to check where the flatter trackers are before pulling: usually above and behind them. The flatter track covers more distance because you lose less altitude per foot of free fall. It's a balance of getting the most horizontal speed while falling slower. I use the palms up technique but I'm also tall and light for my size. 'Palms up' is really just a buzz word for explaining the larger body position of cupping air by rolling your shoulders in. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjuggler 0 #17 January 10, 2004 Cool, thanks for your opinon. In general when I have seen flat flyers seperate, the ones that are going steeper may have more speed, but also tend to have inefficient positions. By this I mean bent legs with an arch still present. This I agree with you will not be as efficient as a flat track. Depending on each persons experiences, tracking is a funny thing. From my jump history, tracking and head up has made up alot of my jumps. The tracking I am talking about is a stretched, flat position but the trajectory is not flat. I hope all understand what I trying to get at. For example, there is a camera man called Bruno Brokken. He is the dude swooping bridges in the film Crosswind. He is a big lad and world famous camera dude with lots of jumps blah blah blah. However, when he is flat and stretched he is fast, but not tearing away. However when he drops into his angle just below flat he goes off. My best description with tracking is that you can stay flat but to get real speed you need to accelerate and then carry your speed. AS far as danger, that is why freeflyers train at tracking, as not everyone can keep up. In away tracking is natural selection because if you can't keep up then you have to go away and get better. I personally love the jumps which are flat and then go a little steeper. This is not for everyone as the rabbit has to be very still when playing in the angle otherwise, just like the vertical, corking can be dangerous. But thats the beauty, train harder and get better, safety first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #18 January 10, 2004 I love tracking just for the skill refinement. There are enough variables to explore to make every track a new experiment at finding the balance between the fall rate, horizonal speed, and trajectory. I agree that the biggest skill is learning how to carry the momentum as you track. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #19 February 12, 2004 on my back palms down like a bat out of hell.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #20 February 14, 2004 Huh, neither... This is one thing I am real good at. Lev says perfect form. Heh... I fold up as I turn w/knees in kinda, I stick my shoulder into my turn. Then flat out with arms tight to body & palms touchin leg tight and toes pointed. Shoulders are rounded kinda. I keep my head inline with my body and gaze upwards to where I am going. Aerodynamic Rocket shaped. Zooom *note this is from a sit or stand to a track. ~AirAnn~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
