What does it take to coach freefly?

[WrongWay 0]

I feel this poses an interesting question. I've seen guys with over 1000 freefly jumps who still flail, and I've seen guys with 600 total jumps competing on a world level. So in your opinion, what does it take to coach freefly?

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[freeflybella 0]

Ooh! Great question.

Can't wait for the replies.

To expand:

Do you have to be able to do it yourself in order to teach it?

Do you only have to have an undestanding of the principles and physics?

Is it mostly about correct interpretation and clear communication?

Does your coach even have to be in the air with you ever? Or could you get coaching solely from video brief/debrief?

(Think gymnastics coaches. Think 4-way coaching.)

Again, great question!

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[hookitt 1]

That depends!

Teaching on a beginner level: To fly in the air and avoid the person while still staying close. You have to be able to do what your teaching. You must be able to recognize what is happening in the air and have great recollection skills. The instructor needs to be able to use examples on the ground, that transfer to the air. Don't try and teach too much at a time.

Using the Gymastic example, that is coaching on a higher level. The coach can teach people to do things they are personally incapable of doing.

Often the 600 jump competitors can do the deed, but have poor teaching ability. The reason is often they are just damn good flyers and fly in instinct. It takes a while to understand the kinesthesia behind the movements. With tunnel rats, it's a different story altogether tough.

---recipe is on the way--- sorry for the delay---

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[JRock 0]

A lot more than 600 hundred jumps.

I will only coach with people can fly underneath me and get out my way no matter what I do.
My coach put it to me this way... I will be out of your way before you even know you are messing up.
Of course my freefly coach has 7000 jumps.

[WrongWay 0]

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Of course my freefly coach has 7000 jumps.

You talkin bout Steve-O?

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[JRock 0]

Mr. TJ Landgren

[WrongWay 0]

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Mr. TJ Landgren

Nah, he's an asshole.

Tell him i said WAZZUP and I'll see the both of you at Tecumseh this season.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[JRock 0]

will do...

Pretty soon I will be kickin your ass in flying...ha
NOT!

[Brains 2]

That is a good question Jason. I don't get coaching from "Names" in the sport. Well, i haven't yet anyway. I get coaching from people at my dz that i have seen fly and offer coaching. They are a FF team and have competed on a national level. Are they the best and know all, certainly not. For me right now it is helping. I will also seek out other coaches to refine and develop new skills. Does anyone elsoe think there should be some sort of requirement for ff coaching??

And JRock, my coach is hella prettier than yours.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[Vertifly 0]

I have to agree that this is a GREAT topic!!!

I've received coaching from some of the old school greats. I remember paying particular attention to their teaching styles abilities. This is because I wanted to teach freefly someday -> more than anything else in the sport. It is my favorite thing to do within my favorite thing to do.
Some of the best freeflyers in the world aren't always good at teaching, some of the semi-pro's are GREAT teachers, and sometimes it's both.

I personally think that a coach should...

1. COMMUNICATE; commit to articulating freefly movements and aerodynamics, from the basics to the top,
2. be capable of staying with the student in the air,
3. comprehend the level of their student
4. identify talent and/or progressive ability - each student learns at a different speed,
5. have energy in the work and be creative with the lessons; this just keeps it interesting for students
6. use visual aids whenever possible(video, models, virtualizing positions, etc.)
7. know the basics of coaching and/or teaching (some public/curricular speaking lessons would help - these things are taught in the coaches course)
8. capable of developing a rapport with students and acting as a mentor,

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Do you have to be able to do it yourself in order to teach it?

A freefly coach should be able to do it in order to teach it. Reflected in the confidence of the instructor is their ability to perform. Confidence breeds confidence baby!!!

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Do you only have to have an undestanding of the principles and physics?

Knowing the principles of physics and aerodynamics helps greatly. Although, you should be able to communicate the affect of the air (at 180mph) on the body. Can you explain the physics of lift in laymens terms? - If you're thinking of becoming a freefly instructor, I'd suggest you practice just that
I've seen the MonkeyClaw guys use a television screen and a dry-erase marker to laymen(ize) cause and effects of vertical wind. This is a great example of using a prop to illustrate what happens when vertical relative wind races past a body out of symmetry.

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Is it mostly about correct interpretation and clear communication?

Yes, I think mostly (this will always be on top of my list).

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Does your coach even have to be in the air with you ever? Or could you get coaching solely from video brief/debrief?

Possibly, but not advised. This, of course, is the economical way to do it but not alway the most progressive. It's never a bad idea to get the advice of kick-ass freeflyers around the DZ. However, one-on-one coaching in the air makes a difference.

Learning by example (with an instructor flying directly in front of the student) is a key advantage to freefly coaching. Stable freeflying depends highly on body position, sense of symmetry, and self-discipline. Being capable of mimicking a teacher immediately (right within the skydive) improves the learning curve. This is particularly true with low jump numbers. I remember learning a new way to do something two times during one coach jump back then. It was so fun to learn that quickly in the sport.

[rocketdog 0]

Honestly, if I felt someone was truly capable & safety-oriented, I would not mind having coaching from them. Obviously, every circumstance varies.

I would MOST DEF value experiene over jump # (quality NOT quantity). I think trying to TEACH/COACH skydiving is rough -- it's very hard to put into words, sensations and experiences in this sport!

~hollywood

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[IMGR2 0]

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And JRock, my coach is hella prettier than yours.

Why thank you Jeff, your a sweetheart.

[freeflybella 0]

What about: Adjust his/her 'teaching style' to fit the 'learning style' of his student? To know what he knows, so well, that he can articulate it in more than one way?

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[JRock 0]

I hope he was referring to SK.
She happens to be one of the hottests chics I know.

[Brains 2]

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Why thank you Jeff, your a sweetheart.

Hey, who else will do Head down kiss passes with you?

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[WrongWay 0]

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Why thank you Jeff, your a sweetheart.

Hey, who else will do Head down kiss passes with you?

Not I!! I'll fly with you, but forget that shit bro.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[freeflir29 0]

To me........As long as you are good at what you are trying to teach and KNOW how to teach you should be OK. Let's take me for example. Not to many jumps....haven't even broke 400 yet. However.....I have a coach's rating and before that I spent almost 10 years in the military where the MAJORITY of my time was spent teaching people skills. I have probably spent more hours in Classrooms than most people with a PHD. So....I know how to teach. I have a camera which I think is essential to teaching skydiving. I'll be honest......I won't do a coaching jump without a camera. The student doesn't get NEAR as much out of it without video. In the end.....be confident in the skills you are trying to teach. When Head Down was above my level to teach I would tell people up front,,......I'm not that good but I'll be glad to take video of your jump. Ya know what........99% of the time the "Student" got something out of the skydive. They learned......which is the object. I have video'd people with hundreds and even sometimes THOUSANDS more jumps than me but they were just learning to free fly. I think teaching skydiving, above the AFF tandem level, is about being honest about your skills and helping others to improve their's. Spread the LOVE! It will come back to you!

[LoudDan 0]

From my experience, I have somwwhere in the neighborhood of 75 or so "pro" coach jumps, and I have found that I get the most "mental" from pros. Mental being relaxation, focusing, and visualizing techniques. Consider that you grind breathing, body position, awareness, and the other physical attributes of freeflying into your head on the ground (some of this can get pretty creative). While your in the air for 50-60 seconds, your coach takes note of what you are or more importanatly are not doing (hopefully on video) and tries to give you fine tuning with hand signals. Once on the ground it's video review, more body positioning and posturing (arms down, feet in, legs strong, breath deeply, relax, lean back, breath, etc), and then works your strengths and weeknesses into the next jump. Having said all of this, I think understanding the physics of freeflying is important, but communicating that information is paramount. Especially if you want to stay safe, knowing how to stay safe does no good if one can not explain how to stay safe.

I've been pretty fortunate to coach with some of the best in the biz, but where the learning curve really kicks is in taking what you learn with the coach and flying it with peope of similar skill level (or preferably higher skill level) on a regular basis (currency applies here too). Personally I waited until whichever coach I was with expressed that he thought I could safely fly (head down, sit, mirrors, etc) with others. I also took care to explain to other freeflers my current skill level along with whatever quirks I had discoverd while coaching (backsliding, orbiting, driving, unstableness with docks, and whatever else). Since most of us can't afford a fulltime freefly coach, I think peer coaching with some intelligence is an invaluable learning tool as it allows you to apply what you have learned with your coach on a day to day (or weekend to weekend) basis. I haven't met anyone that got better by not practicing what they have learned.

Oh yeah, if you have a pro that wants to make a fun jump with you, GO and GO again if ya can, you can't help but learn.

Just my rambbling 2 cents worth.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[mirochristie 0]

#1. Lots of jumps.
Be able to keep up w/ a really bad FF newbie. To be able to follow him/her accros the sky, never loose sight of him/her so you can later debrief.
You also need to take care of yourself (that`s why I started w/ "lots of jumps). You need to back away or get close in a blink of an eye.

It can get scary (I bet).

And last but not least....to be able to communicate well (on ground and sky), have patience, keep a smile, be cool and HUMBLE about it!

That`s what I think.

LiquidSky
@(^_^)@