jeiber 0 #1 July 11, 2006 Ok, maybe this has been discussed before, maybe it's just a dumb idea, but I have to ask... Has anyone tried using a (small) water balloon as a skyball? Just curious what the fall rate would be... maybe for belly flying, or not heavy enough even for that? Maybe put some led shot in the belloon, with the water? Just brainstorming ideas here! JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunnerl 0 #2 July 12, 2006 i'm gettin sick of flyers without the proper skills (600 falls???) not worrying about possibly killin people on the ground, ruining a dz and a pilots career... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #3 July 12, 2006 Quotei'm gettin sick of flyers without the proper skills (600 falls???) not worrying about possibly killin people on the ground, ruining a dz and a pilots career... I used to know an engineer at RWS who was constantly dreaming, brainstorming, and coming up with kick ass new ideas. I'd hate for him to have read a post from someone like you. Who are you to tell someone to stiffel their creativity and imagination? He never said this plan would be put into action. I bet most of the safety innovations in this sport have come from brainsotrming creatively with people of all experience levels. Experience is relative. There is someone out there who makes your jump numbers look miniscule.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #4 July 12, 2006 well said. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamsam 0 #5 July 12, 2006 secondedbut what do I know Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #6 July 12, 2006 here here. sounded like a good idea to me. it sounds like a safe alternative; and brilliant if the density of water weighted a delicate shell (like a balloon) well enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeiber 0 #7 July 12, 2006 Quotei'm gettin sick of flyers without the proper skills (600 falls???) not worrying about possibly killin people on the ground, ruining a dz and a pilots career... I'm gettin sick of negative people, with much less than all the facts, making unfounded assumptions. JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 78RATS 0 #8 July 12, 2006 Water balloons can be lethal if travelling at high speeds, IMO. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeiber 0 #9 July 12, 2006 QuoteWater balloons can be lethal if travelling at high speeds, IMO. Your right, it certainly can. I think anything hitting a person at ~160mph is going to definitely hurt, at the least. My point isn't to invent something 'idiot proof', but just something safer than throwing a lead filled ball out of a plane. Some more food for thought: a paintball gun fires a small, hard paintball at 170-200mph, without being lethal. A larger object, that losses it's mass (and therefore energy) faster (on impact) than a paintball, should be far less dangerous. I just hope we don't see a rash of water balloon postings in the incident reports after this weekend. JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #10 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteWater balloons can be lethal if travelling at high speeds, IMO. Your right, it certainly can. I think anything hitting a person at ~160mph is going to definitely hurt, at the least. My point isn't to make something 'idiot proof', but just something safer than throwing a lead filled ball out of a plane. Some more food for thought: a paintball gun fires a small, hard paintball at 170-200mph, without being lethal. A larger object, that losses it's mass (and therefore energy) faster (on impact) than a paintball, should be far less dangerous. I just hope we don't see a rash of water balloon postings in the incident reports after this weekend. Now... to get the water balloon to maintain it's shape and stability during freefall... Hmmm. Jeff It would need to be about 10" in diameter to get the necessary speed, and with a thicker skin than a regular balloon to maintain its shape. I sure wouldn't like to be hit by one going 160mph. Kinda like being hit by a watermelon going 160mph.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #11 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteWater balloons can be lethal if travelling at high speeds, IMO. Your right, it certainly can. I think anything hitting a person at ~160mph is going to definitely hurt, at the least. My point isn't to invent something 'idiot proof', but just something safer than throwing a lead filled ball out of a plane. Some more food for thought: a paintball gun fires a small, hard paintball at 170-200mph, without being lethal. A larger object, that losses it's mass (and therefore energy) faster (on impact) than a paintball, should be far less dangerous. I just hope we don't see a rash of water balloon postings in the incident reports after this weekend. Jeff How does the kinetic energy of a paintball with a mass of a few grams, going 200mph, compare with the KE of a 15 pound water balloon going 160mph? And how does it lose its mass? Assuming it bursts on impact, the water is still going the same speed... Edited to add - a company (UDT) in Virginia is marketing a liquid projectile anti-personnel weapon that fires much smaller "rounds" than would be needed here, at 200mph. Your "ball" would have kinetic energy of over 12,000 ft.pounds!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vertifly 0 #12 July 12, 2006 QuoteIt would need to be about 10" in diameter to get the necessary speed, and with a thicker skin than a regular balloon to maintain its shape. I sure wouldn't like to be hit by one going 160mph. Kinda like being hit by a watermelon going 160mph. 10" ? How did you calculate that...I mean, are you absolutely sure? It is probably better that it does not maintain its shape. Like a water drop, just add a tiny pull-up-cord tail, would be better to conform to the wind and add to the velocity. ...;therefore, it would be less forgiving than a watermelon. Yes, a watermelon would hurt. But a lethal waterballoon...just hard to imagine. It may explode well before any type of detrimental impact....maybe i said. Quote Your right, it certainly can. I think anything hitting a person at ~160mph is going to definitely hurt, at the least. My point isn't to invent something 'idiot proof', but just something safer than throwing a lead filled ball out of a plane. Some more food for thought: a paintball gun fires a small, hard paintball at 170-200mph, without being lethal. A larger object, that losses it's mass (and therefore energy) faster (on impact) than a paintball, should be far less dangerous. Exactly. Quote How does the kinetic energy of a paintball with a mass of a few grams, going 200mph, compare with the KE of a 15 pound water balloon going 160mph? And how does it lose its mass? Where did you get the number 15 lbs? Did you make that up or is that determined by the weight of water at the speculated 10" diameter above? It doesn't compare. It would burst into billion molecules upon contact with a fixed object. Hence, losing its combined mass. QuoteAssuming it bursts on impact, the water is still going the same speed... Are you actually going to just assume that it is going to burst on impact. Dear Sir, it most definitely will. Will it hurt? ...probably. End somebody's life? ...yet to be determined but much less likely than a spaceball. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeiber 0 #13 July 12, 2006 QuoteIt would need to be about 10" in diameter to get the necessary speed, and with a thicker skin than a regular balloon to maintain its shape. Hmmmm. 10" isn't practical... need to figure out how to increase mass, without increasing size and fluid viscosity. Yes, already thought of the thicker skin - at least on the 'nose'. Wax perhaps? I dunno... QuoteI sure wouldn't like to be hit by one going 160mph. Kinda like being hit by a watermelon going 160mph. Please... you can't compare being hit with a water balloon to being hit with a watermellon. QuoteHow does the kinetic energy of a paintball with a mass of a few grams, going 200mph, compare with the KE of a 15 pound water balloon going 160mph? And how does it lose its mass? Assuming it bursts on impact, the water is still going the same speed... 1) I never said anything about a 15lbs of anything. 2) I think you'll agree that water is far better at reducing kinetic energy, than say... lead? 3) A water balloon loses it's mass by exploding, and the energy is transferred to the water, which explodes in various directions. Come on Kallend, we could use your help here! Let's mix some common sense with the science, and we might come up with something! How did you arrive at the 15lbs and 10" diameter water balloon? A gallon of water is ~8.3lbs. Ethanol (not practical here) weighs a little over 6lbs per gallon. What weighs more, but isn't toxic/explosive/etc.? ps- looks like Vertifly and I were thinking the same thing at the same time! ya beat me to the 'post' button!Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #14 July 12, 2006 Quote How did you arrive at the 15lbs and 10" diameter water balloon? A gallon of water is ~8.3lbs. Ethanol (not practical here) weighs a little over 6lbs per gallon. What weighs more, but isn't toxic/explosive/etc.? Physics is wonderful. Everyone should learn physics. 10" is the size you need for the gravitational force to equal the drag at 160mph on a spherical glob of water. That glob will weigh around 15 pounds. To maintain a spherical shape you'd need a thick skin, or it would flatten out and drag would increase, slowing it down. The KE all has to dissipate somehow, regardless of how it "explodes". That energy will transfer into the object it hits. Water is "hard" at high speed. Ever done a belly flop into a swimming pool?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #15 July 12, 2006 If your theory were correct (which it isn't), the water cannon would be useless as a riot control weapon.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vertifly 0 #16 July 12, 2006 Comedy Relief. Would you want to be this porta-pottie? A 30" diameter test from about 5 or 6 stories.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr1GP8PTsr4 QuoteIf your theory were correct (which it isn't), the water cannon would be useless as a riot control weapon. huh...dear professor, you surely meant to address another. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeiber 0 #17 July 12, 2006 QuoteYour "ball" would have kinetic energy of over 12,000 ft.pounds! A .30-30 hunting bullet has 1902 ft. lbs of energy. Holy smokes! That means water balloons have over 6 times the kinetic energy of a lead bullet, fired from a hunting rifle! Again, let's use a little common sense.... Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 37 #18 July 12, 2006 You do realize that you're arguing with a professor of physics, right? I asked Kallend to take a look at this thread because I didn't want anyone testing this theory out this weekend on a whim. It's great that you guys have questions though, I think we're all learning something here. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vertifly 0 #19 July 12, 2006 Oh sure, pick on me. My theory, always question. But I knew that we had a poor arguement when I saw that video. Thanks Big Mamma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 37 #20 July 12, 2006 QuoteOh sure, pick on me. I pick on both you and Jeiber. It was your turn. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #21 July 12, 2006 Anyone ever toy with one of those 3-person water balloon slingshots? Being hit by one (which I would assume was traveling waaay slower than freefall speeds), really, really sucked. I'd be willing to bet that even a small water balloon falling at terminal could easily kill someone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,559 #22 July 12, 2006 QuoteAgain, let's use a little common sense.... [Unsure] Ok, common sense when applied to physics problems is worse than useless. What you think 'should' happen and what really does happen are very different things.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeiber 0 #23 July 12, 2006 QuoteYou do realize that you're arguing with a professor of physics, right? And he has some doubt as to whether a water balloon will break when dropped from an airplane?! I'm up for a little science experiement here: Vertifly and I will drop a 5lb water balloon on our heads, from a two story house. Kallend and Jakee can drop a 5lb brick on to their heads from a two story house. I'm confident enough in my theory....Vertifly? JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,559 #24 July 12, 2006 Ok..... now I think you are deliberately misunderstanding what Kallend has been saying. Did you watch Vertifly's vid? He has also abandoned your theoryDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #25 July 12, 2006 QuoteA 30" diameter test from about 5 or 6 stories.... 30"? lol.. Its no wondcer women cant parallel park with what we tell them is so and so inches... That wasnt 2 and 1/2 feet in diameter. 20" at the max, probably 18"Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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jeiber 0 #7 July 12, 2006 Quotei'm gettin sick of flyers without the proper skills (600 falls???) not worrying about possibly killin people on the ground, ruining a dz and a pilots career... I'm gettin sick of negative people, with much less than all the facts, making unfounded assumptions. JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #8 July 12, 2006 Water balloons can be lethal if travelling at high speeds, IMO. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #9 July 12, 2006 QuoteWater balloons can be lethal if travelling at high speeds, IMO. Your right, it certainly can. I think anything hitting a person at ~160mph is going to definitely hurt, at the least. My point isn't to invent something 'idiot proof', but just something safer than throwing a lead filled ball out of a plane. Some more food for thought: a paintball gun fires a small, hard paintball at 170-200mph, without being lethal. A larger object, that losses it's mass (and therefore energy) faster (on impact) than a paintball, should be far less dangerous. I just hope we don't see a rash of water balloon postings in the incident reports after this weekend. JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #10 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteWater balloons can be lethal if travelling at high speeds, IMO. Your right, it certainly can. I think anything hitting a person at ~160mph is going to definitely hurt, at the least. My point isn't to make something 'idiot proof', but just something safer than throwing a lead filled ball out of a plane. Some more food for thought: a paintball gun fires a small, hard paintball at 170-200mph, without being lethal. A larger object, that losses it's mass (and therefore energy) faster (on impact) than a paintball, should be far less dangerous. I just hope we don't see a rash of water balloon postings in the incident reports after this weekend. Now... to get the water balloon to maintain it's shape and stability during freefall... Hmmm. Jeff It would need to be about 10" in diameter to get the necessary speed, and with a thicker skin than a regular balloon to maintain its shape. I sure wouldn't like to be hit by one going 160mph. Kinda like being hit by a watermelon going 160mph.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #11 July 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteWater balloons can be lethal if travelling at high speeds, IMO. Your right, it certainly can. I think anything hitting a person at ~160mph is going to definitely hurt, at the least. My point isn't to invent something 'idiot proof', but just something safer than throwing a lead filled ball out of a plane. Some more food for thought: a paintball gun fires a small, hard paintball at 170-200mph, without being lethal. A larger object, that losses it's mass (and therefore energy) faster (on impact) than a paintball, should be far less dangerous. I just hope we don't see a rash of water balloon postings in the incident reports after this weekend. Jeff How does the kinetic energy of a paintball with a mass of a few grams, going 200mph, compare with the KE of a 15 pound water balloon going 160mph? And how does it lose its mass? Assuming it bursts on impact, the water is still going the same speed... Edited to add - a company (UDT) in Virginia is marketing a liquid projectile anti-personnel weapon that fires much smaller "rounds" than would be needed here, at 200mph. Your "ball" would have kinetic energy of over 12,000 ft.pounds!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #12 July 12, 2006 QuoteIt would need to be about 10" in diameter to get the necessary speed, and with a thicker skin than a regular balloon to maintain its shape. I sure wouldn't like to be hit by one going 160mph. Kinda like being hit by a watermelon going 160mph. 10" ? How did you calculate that...I mean, are you absolutely sure? It is probably better that it does not maintain its shape. Like a water drop, just add a tiny pull-up-cord tail, would be better to conform to the wind and add to the velocity. ...;therefore, it would be less forgiving than a watermelon. Yes, a watermelon would hurt. But a lethal waterballoon...just hard to imagine. It may explode well before any type of detrimental impact....maybe i said. Quote Your right, it certainly can. I think anything hitting a person at ~160mph is going to definitely hurt, at the least. My point isn't to invent something 'idiot proof', but just something safer than throwing a lead filled ball out of a plane. Some more food for thought: a paintball gun fires a small, hard paintball at 170-200mph, without being lethal. A larger object, that losses it's mass (and therefore energy) faster (on impact) than a paintball, should be far less dangerous. Exactly. Quote How does the kinetic energy of a paintball with a mass of a few grams, going 200mph, compare with the KE of a 15 pound water balloon going 160mph? And how does it lose its mass? Where did you get the number 15 lbs? Did you make that up or is that determined by the weight of water at the speculated 10" diameter above? It doesn't compare. It would burst into billion molecules upon contact with a fixed object. Hence, losing its combined mass. QuoteAssuming it bursts on impact, the water is still going the same speed... Are you actually going to just assume that it is going to burst on impact. Dear Sir, it most definitely will. Will it hurt? ...probably. End somebody's life? ...yet to be determined but much less likely than a spaceball. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #13 July 12, 2006 QuoteIt would need to be about 10" in diameter to get the necessary speed, and with a thicker skin than a regular balloon to maintain its shape. Hmmmm. 10" isn't practical... need to figure out how to increase mass, without increasing size and fluid viscosity. Yes, already thought of the thicker skin - at least on the 'nose'. Wax perhaps? I dunno... QuoteI sure wouldn't like to be hit by one going 160mph. Kinda like being hit by a watermelon going 160mph. Please... you can't compare being hit with a water balloon to being hit with a watermellon. QuoteHow does the kinetic energy of a paintball with a mass of a few grams, going 200mph, compare with the KE of a 15 pound water balloon going 160mph? And how does it lose its mass? Assuming it bursts on impact, the water is still going the same speed... 1) I never said anything about a 15lbs of anything. 2) I think you'll agree that water is far better at reducing kinetic energy, than say... lead? 3) A water balloon loses it's mass by exploding, and the energy is transferred to the water, which explodes in various directions. Come on Kallend, we could use your help here! Let's mix some common sense with the science, and we might come up with something! How did you arrive at the 15lbs and 10" diameter water balloon? A gallon of water is ~8.3lbs. Ethanol (not practical here) weighs a little over 6lbs per gallon. What weighs more, but isn't toxic/explosive/etc.? ps- looks like Vertifly and I were thinking the same thing at the same time! ya beat me to the 'post' button!Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #14 July 12, 2006 Quote How did you arrive at the 15lbs and 10" diameter water balloon? A gallon of water is ~8.3lbs. Ethanol (not practical here) weighs a little over 6lbs per gallon. What weighs more, but isn't toxic/explosive/etc.? Physics is wonderful. Everyone should learn physics. 10" is the size you need for the gravitational force to equal the drag at 160mph on a spherical glob of water. That glob will weigh around 15 pounds. To maintain a spherical shape you'd need a thick skin, or it would flatten out and drag would increase, slowing it down. The KE all has to dissipate somehow, regardless of how it "explodes". That energy will transfer into the object it hits. Water is "hard" at high speed. Ever done a belly flop into a swimming pool?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #15 July 12, 2006 If your theory were correct (which it isn't), the water cannon would be useless as a riot control weapon.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #16 July 12, 2006 Comedy Relief. Would you want to be this porta-pottie? A 30" diameter test from about 5 or 6 stories.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr1GP8PTsr4 QuoteIf your theory were correct (which it isn't), the water cannon would be useless as a riot control weapon. huh...dear professor, you surely meant to address another. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #17 July 12, 2006 QuoteYour "ball" would have kinetic energy of over 12,000 ft.pounds! A .30-30 hunting bullet has 1902 ft. lbs of energy. Holy smokes! That means water balloons have over 6 times the kinetic energy of a lead bullet, fired from a hunting rifle! Again, let's use a little common sense.... Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #18 July 12, 2006 You do realize that you're arguing with a professor of physics, right? I asked Kallend to take a look at this thread because I didn't want anyone testing this theory out this weekend on a whim. It's great that you guys have questions though, I think we're all learning something here. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #19 July 12, 2006 Oh sure, pick on me. My theory, always question. But I knew that we had a poor arguement when I saw that video. Thanks Big Mamma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #20 July 12, 2006 QuoteOh sure, pick on me. I pick on both you and Jeiber. It was your turn. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #21 July 12, 2006 Anyone ever toy with one of those 3-person water balloon slingshots? Being hit by one (which I would assume was traveling waaay slower than freefall speeds), really, really sucked. I'd be willing to bet that even a small water balloon falling at terminal could easily kill someone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,559 #22 July 12, 2006 QuoteAgain, let's use a little common sense.... [Unsure] Ok, common sense when applied to physics problems is worse than useless. What you think 'should' happen and what really does happen are very different things.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeiber 0 #23 July 12, 2006 QuoteYou do realize that you're arguing with a professor of physics, right? And he has some doubt as to whether a water balloon will break when dropped from an airplane?! I'm up for a little science experiement here: Vertifly and I will drop a 5lb water balloon on our heads, from a two story house. Kallend and Jakee can drop a 5lb brick on to their heads from a two story house. I'm confident enough in my theory....Vertifly? JeffShhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,559 #24 July 12, 2006 Ok..... now I think you are deliberately misunderstanding what Kallend has been saying. Did you watch Vertifly's vid? He has also abandoned your theoryDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #25 July 12, 2006 QuoteA 30" diameter test from about 5 or 6 stories.... 30"? lol.. Its no wondcer women cant parallel park with what we tell them is so and so inches... That wasnt 2 and 1/2 feet in diameter. 20" at the max, probably 18"Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
