Choosing a rig?

[bigfritz 0]

I have 20 jumps and I'm looking to buy a rig within the next couple of months. Renting gear every jump is getting quite expensive and I'd like to have my own gear.
I've noticed how when a Wings container is brought up, it's pretty much always linked with a Triathlon main canopy. What are other popular combination container + main canopies for rigs? I've noticed a lot of Javelin & Sabre, too. Are there any pros/cons to these different set ups? What would be the best for a beginner? I don't want any old grandma gear, but I also don't want something that's going to kill me.

So far I'm thinking about Wings container, Triathlon 135 main, and Cypres 2. I have no idea what kind of reserve to get, though. Should I get the same size as my main, and what kind?

For other gear, I'm thinkin a Velocity helmet /w Pro Dytter, Altimaster III Galaxy altimeter, some regular sunglasses with straps for goggles, and I'm looking to find a place that sells some cool cargo skydiving pants.

Watcha think?
Tom

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Freefly, baby.

[masher 1]

methinks the stock standard questions are:

Have you talked to your instructors?
How much do you weigh?


.


As for container/canopy choices, I think that the only thing that matters is that the container is the correct size for the canopy.


As for advice on what is good for you, I'm not going there, as I know not very much. Talk to your instructors.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[CornishChris 5]

Unless there is substantial irony in your name here being "BigFritz" then I would reconsider the 135 main...

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[sundevil777 102]

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So far I'm thinking about Wings container, Triathlon 135 main, and Cypres 2.

Sounds like you know what you want. So much that it is already in your profile.

I hope you are very light. A 135 is quite small for your experience unless you are really tiny.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[bigfritz 0]

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Have you talked to your instructors?

I've talked to my instructors and they said a 135 sq ft. canopy would be best for me. I haven't asked them about anything else yet, though.

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Unless there is substantial irony in your name here being "BigFritz" then I would reconsider the 135 main...

Hahaha, I weigh between 125-130, it always changes. My nickname is fritz and my friends me big fritz cause i'm so small. lol

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So far I'm thinking about Wings container, Triathlon 135 main, and Cypres 2.

Sounds like you know what you want. So much that it is already in your profile.

I hope you are very light. A 135 is quite small for your experience unless you are really tiny.

Yeah, I put that in there cause I got bored and that's what I usually rent.

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Freefly, baby.

[masher 1]

So you weigh 130, plus ~25 for a rig, so your exit weight is 155.

My exit weight is ~170, and I jump a 150 Sabre. I got that at ~80 jumps.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[councilman24 37]

IMHO, as an instructor and rigger for 20 years, a 135 Triathlon is too small for you. Can you get away with it? For awhile. Maybe even until your really ready for it. But it will be pushing your limits very hard. And maybe to the breaking, bone breaking, point. There is something to be said for being bored. I've seen someone with your experience and size under a 135 triathlon. He got away with it for 13 jumps. He doesn't run so good with the metal in his back now.

Terry

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[davelepka 4]

When you start to look at smaller canopies, say 150 and under, there are additional factors to consider when selecting a wing loading.

First the smaller canopy will have less parasitic drag due to it's smaller size. The wing loading is pulling a smaller profile through the air, which causes it to go faster.

Second, shorter line set will reduce the time it takes you canopy to react to inputs. Your weight, which is providing all the forward speed of the canopy, is rotating through a shoter arc under the canopy, thus causing cahnges in pitch or attitude to happen quicker. Your reaction time needs to speed up in accordance with this, or wou will literally be "behind the power curve".

Both of these factors, when combined, effectivlety raise you wing loading approx. .2 or .3/ sq ft. If you figure your exit weight (150), devided by your canopy size 135, you would get 1.11 to 1. Add the factors mentioned above, and you effective wing loading of between 1.41 or 1.31 to 1.

You may be better served with a 150 (or larger) for your first canopy. 150 or 170 sized canopies are very popular, and easy to find a good deal on a used one (and subsequently easy to sell after 100 jumps or so).

[bigfritz 0]

Well I have to admit, my landings on the 135 haven't been AS good as my landings on a 175 or 160. With those two I'd tippy toe right in every time. When it looked like I was going to splat, I'd pull the toggles down in one nice motion and it worked great. With the 135 when I flair in one motion like that, I land okay, but it feels like I'm jumping off a 5 ft. ladder. It knocks me down so my knees get bent pretty good. One of the guys at my DZ was watching me and he said to flair down to my shoulders/chest first to get a glide going, and then flair at the very last second. I'll try that next weekend when I go to the DZ and see how that works out.

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Freefly, baby.

[davelepka 4]

Your story sounds like the perfect argument for my earlier post. Your skills at this point are not up to the task of that particular canopy.

Keep this in mind: A sprained ankle will have keep you on the ground for a month. If you break a finger, or a toe, same deal. These are small, somewhat painless injuries that will sideline your skydiving 100%. Stick to the canopies you can land safely, and stay in the air. ( I have purposely left major and/or catastrophic injuries out of the post because we all know the results of those, and are sick of hearing about them).

[bigfritz 0]

I'll try the two step flair. That will probably fix my problem.
What kind of reserve should I get? I keep hearing about PD. Is that the "best"?

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Freefly, baby.

[davelepka 4]

PD makes the best canopies out there. With your expertice you should get the PD 113 (I've got one, nad you're only 3000 or so jumps behind me). I think the 106 is a hair small for you, but it's your choice.

[skybytch 273]

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With your expertice you should get the PD 113 (I've got one, nad you're only 3000 or so jumps behind me). I think the 106 is a hair small for you, but it's your choice.

He's 130 pounds body weight and you're recommending a 113 reserve? Wow.

I'd think a 143 or 160 reserve would be a far better choice. Along with a 150 sq ft main considering that he hasn't yet learned how to properly flare a zp canopy.

[bmcd308 0]

>>With your expertice you should get the PD 113 <<

Surely this is a joke.

If it is, I do not really approve, because the guy might not realize it. If it's not, allow me to retort, to borrow a phrase.

Bigfritz, consider the following:
1. You do not land your 135 very well under perfect conditions.
2. You have cut away that 135.
3. You are petrified.
4. You are over a field adjacent to the dropzone, and you are low.
5. You don't remember which way the wind is blowing.
6. You can't see a windsock.
7. You need to get over some trees to get into the field, but you need to put it down well before the power lines on the other side.

Now, ask yourself if this is a good time to downsize.

Just my $.02 on the small reserve issue.

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[hookitt 1]

The previous post is very good, especially considering that the adjacent fields at the Parachute Center near Lodi are fields of grape stakes.

-
Edit: I before E except after C... F-I-E-L-D... got it.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Chrisky 0]

IMHO, 20 jumps is an early time to buy your own gear anyway.
Try out some different canopies, and i would, just as all others did, recommend you not to go down to a 135 yet.
Consider that you have good conditions when landing and you don't flare right on it yet.
You stated that you were jumping 190 and 160 before, did you try a 150 at all? I've jumped a 150 for my first 250 jumps, and only after like a 100 jumps or so i felt like being able to handle it in pretty much any condition.

The 113 Reserve proposal was a joke, a pretty bitter one, though.

To finally answer the Reserve question, i can recommend Paratec Speed 2000 reserves, they pack up really tiny (a 135 packs like the PD 126, so you should maybe stick to the 150) and are well made, have one myself.
I liked a bigger reserve than my main, i dont wanna be doing a performance landing after a cutaway.

My 2 ... where's that "cents" key???

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[bigfritz 0]

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>>With your expertice you should get the PD 113 <<

Surely this is a joke.

If it is, I do not really approve, because the guy might not realize it. If it's not, allow me to retort, to borrow a phrase.

Bigfritz, consider the following:
1. You do not land your 135 very well under perfect conditions.
2. You have cut away that 135.
3. You are petrified.
4. You are over a field adjacent to the dropzone, and you are low.
5. You don't remember which way the wind is blowing.
6. You can't see a windsock.
7. You need to get over some trees to get into the field, but you need to put it down well before the power lines on the other side.

Now, ask yourself if this is a good time to downsize.

Just my $.02 on the small reserve issue.

Brent

Well I'm not considering downsizing, I was just asking what size reserve would be best for me.
Here is what I would do is those 7 situations, though...

1. Yes, they're not th best, but they're still stand up landings.
2. Not a problem
3. I don't think I'd be too scared. I'd actually like to cutaway...just for the experience.
4. If I had to land in a rough field, I'd keep my feet together and do a PLF if I had to. Or I'd position myself in the middle of two rows of grape vines in Lodi's situation.
5. I'd just watch which way I was being blown under canopy and which direction I felt the wind coming at my body and clothes. That's how I judge which direction to land when there isn't enough wind to move the windsocks.
6. Same as above
7. I'd pass the trees and circle around if I had enough altitude, or quick S turns.

How's that sound?

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Freefly, baby.

[bigfritz 0]

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IMHO, 20 jumps is an early time to buy your own gear anyway.
Try out some different canopies, and i would, just as all others did, recommend you not to go down to a 135 yet.
Consider that you have good conditions when landing and you don't flare right on it yet.
You stated that you were jumping 190 and 160 before, did you try a 150 at all? I've jumped a 150 for my first 250 jumps, and only after like a 100 jumps or so i felt like being able to handle it in pretty much any condition.

The 113 Reserve proposal was a joke, a pretty bitter one, though.

To finally answer the Reserve question, i can recommend Paratec Speed 2000 reserves, they pack up really tiny (a 135 packs like the PD 126, so you should maybe stick to the 150) and are well made, have one myself.
I liked a bigger reserve than my main, i dont wanna be doing a performance landing after a cutaway.

My 2 ... where's that "cents" key???

Other than the Triathlon 135, I've jumped a Tri 160, 175, and some student rig that was somewhere around 250. My landings were perfect with every other sized canopy besides this 135 so far. I haven't tried a 150 yet, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be much different than the 160.

Thanks for the info on the reserve.

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Freefly, baby.

[Chrisky 0]

You're welcome.

IMHO your answers are pretty theoretical, though.

Simply imagine you don't even have time to think of all that because you're simply fu+=ing LOW.

Actually you just hit the ground, that's how fast it might be. Landing out along a treeline watching your clothes won't help you staying outta that turbulence.

If you think you'd like a cutaway just for the experience; why would you ever want to go with anything else than a perfectly working main?

There are enough things that can malfunction upon cutaway, so i wouldn't want to cutaway if i don't have to.

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[bigfritz 0]

Good points.

I wouldn't intentionally cut away, but if I had to, I think it'd be good in the long run just to know that everything works okay. Well, assuming everything did work okay. But I'm sure it would.

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Freefly, baby.

[Chrisky 0]

Drills, baby, drills!
Everytime and anywhere!

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[poohbeer 0]

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I'll try the two step flair. That will probably fix my problem.
What kind of reserve should I get? I keep hearing about PD. Is that the "best"?

I'm certainly no expert (AT ALL).. but in my opinion flaring is like thé most basic thing you must do on every chute.
If you can't do that 100% perfect all the time don't you think that chute when used for a something other then a straight in - perfect conditions- landing is too much for you?
What if you ever get a downwind landing with that 135f², or you need to turn away a bit on final approach because of that 5 year old running onto the dropzone.. wouldn't you be glad if you'd stayed with a 150 or even bigger?
Bigger chutes like 150f² and such are also going to be easier and more forgiving to learn stuff on like high performance landings but certainly can do all those things.
You sound like me when I bought my Suzuki GSX-R600 a few years back. Some knowledgable guys told me that I could handle it, some others told me it was dangerous. And hell, I could do some decent riding with it but when I met that car that forced me to use that bike to it's potential, I crashed.
Was I able to ride that bike? Sure. Was it a good bike for me? Hell no! I think this situation is the same and you -just as I- will listen to the folks that say what you want to hear. Hopefully you don't 'crash' yours.

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[davelepka 4]

If you take a look at my previous posts in this thread, you'll see that I made a strong argument agianst the 135 main he was considering for his first rig. He went on to admit that he had difficulty landing the 135, while the 160 or 175 let him down nicely. When I reccomended that he use that info as an indicator that the 135 was not the right canopy, his reply was " Thanks, but some guy at my DZ says a two stage flare will do the trick, so I'll just do that and keep jumping the 135. By the way, any reccomendations for a reserve?" At this point I figure that he's not going to listen to realistic advice anyway, so I told him what I jump.

At his weight and experience, I would say that the pd160R would be the smallest reserve I would like to see him under. I would actually prefer to see him under the 176R.

[davelepka 4]

After reading the additional posts in this thread, specifically those by Fritz, I think this guy is out to lunch. His points regarding his state of mind, and ability to fly his canopy after a real world cutaway are rediculous. He doesn't posses those skills now, on a controlled staight in landing, but he's sure that after a cutaway and subsequent "adjustment" to the spot, he seems sure that the skills will come to him.

Fritz, please print out this entire thread, and take it to the CI at your DZ. See what he (or she) thinks about all the opinions presented here.

You seem to think that shit doesn't happen. I think you have a rigger in the loft in Lodi named Jeff McAnn. If so, ask him about his first freefall, and the mal that he had, and the round reserve he landed in the parking lot in between two cars. Shit happens, plan for it.

[skybytch 273]

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But I'm pretty sure I can get landings down solid with the 135.

I'm sure you can too. Question is will your body parts survive the learning curve intact?

I was pretty sure I could land solid with a Safire 149. 60 bad landings later I was laid up with two blown discs. There went 18 months of skydiving. And they weren't really bad landings either, just kinda rolling across the landing area or sliding in on my ass....

I have 950 jumps. I jump a 1.0 wingloading (like you'd be under a 150-160). I stand up 99% of my landings and I have no worries about putting that canopy into a tight landing area cuz the spot sucked.

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which direction I felt the wind coming at my body and clothes.

Umm... under canopy, the wind is pretty much always coming from the direction you are travelling, isn't it?