krkeenan 0 #51 December 1, 2005 QuoteThanks, Kate, Take good care of the CRWdogs that are heading to Thailand for the upcoming freefall big way. I think you've got three of them heading your way, but there may be more. If the gods of the "Standby List" are smiling, there will be one more... Kevin====================== Seasons don't fear the Reaper, nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #52 December 2, 2005 Little question on the gear.. In the website they ask for collapsible canopies, x slider etc... for aerodynamics. How about using RDS's on these canopies ??scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #53 December 2, 2005 You'd have to come up with a removable spider or mesh slider first, you can't jump with a regular slider it takes too long to open. Then, most CF canopies are not bagged so you'd have to figure that out too. The full RDS system results in more malfunctions. One malfunction and no record. Also things happen real quick after exit because they open so fast, people would need some separation before fiddling with removable stuff. And everyone needs to use this probably otherwise there will be a difference in drag again. Seems to me more trouble than it's worth, but maybe... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #54 December 2, 2005 Actually the top 3 or 4 people DID use removable sliders. We wanted the base to fly FAST so the top few did have removable sliders. Its not worth it for the rest of us - and in fact - where I was, we deliberately jumped baggy clothes and slower canopies cuz we wanted to go slow! W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #55 December 2, 2005 I also noticed that top 3 people had "trailing" pilotchutes (i.e. not "reeled in" on top of the canopy). What's up with that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #56 December 2, 2005 It was all about speed. They had kill-line pilot chutes, removable sliders, and 550 microlines to keep them going faster. This formation was hauling ass - as evidenced by how solid it was and by how far back the wings are trailing. If you have a slow base, the whole formation is more unstable and likely to funnel. Getting as big as we are, we want the base to be going as fast as possible. That's why we're using even bigger canopies up top than in the fast, as well as the mods to speed them up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krkeenan 0 #57 December 3, 2005 Check the CFWR website for the new videos. SEE - The most awesome sunset load you can imagine !! SEE - The biggest nylon/flesh constructed aircraft in history approaching the planet like an Imperial Battle Cruiser. SEE - The most daring and intrepid CRWDogs on earth make it all look like a walk in the park.====================== Seasons don't fear the Reaper, nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birddog 0 #58 December 6, 2005 Thanks to all envolved in the 81 and 85 way. had a great time and look 4ward to doing a 100 way with you guys an gals, hope you all enjoyed the Vegemite!!!Deal with it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #59 December 6, 2005 I was not there, but my hat goes off to you. that was beautiful. i wish to join you guys soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jjiimmyyt 0 #60 December 6, 2005 I was there to watch the last record, so sorry I wasn't there this time. You guys kick ass. Very impressive. "This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #61 December 6, 2005 Wow, what a way for Joel and Scott to go out. They would have been so proud of you all.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crewdog2 0 #62 December 7, 2005 A little perspective on what it's like to be in the middle of the formation: I'm the tail of the 36 way, and I have to say that with all the problems the base had during the week, when the 36 way came together she flew like a champ. However, when we grew to 49 and larger, the center of the formation was a real handful. Canopies were very loose with a lot of line travel. Scary shit sometimes. Not unmanageable, but pucker factor upped. From talks with Chris and Mike, the formation was designed this way with the 81 way in mind. Our center flew fast at times (I was out in front and could see all the way to the top at #36) . All of this paid off upon completion of the 64 way - damn, those babies flew great. And I have to say I was comfortable. Our organizers knew what they were doing, and we're grateful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #63 December 7, 2005 QuoteWow, what a way for Joel and Scott to go out. They would have been so proud of you all. That's hard looking at that pic Mar. I know that Steve and Dave are still feeling it as well. No doubt that Steve thought of them as they made the Record this year. Scott and Joel will never be forgotten. We were just remembering them this past weekend at Zhills..with some CRWdogs as well as some of my Colorado friends who've moved to Florida as well. Seems like yesterday.... _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirkbauer 0 #64 December 8, 2005 Actually, #2, #3 and #4 (but not the pilot (Chris Gay)) later switched to split sliders because the removable sliders were having too much of an impact on the build time of the base 4-way. With all four people having to remove their sliders before docking it was just too slow. Chris (and previously the other 3 in the 4-way) were indeed using removable ZP sliders of the same sort used by swoopers, but without the d-bag as part of it. For competion CRW ZP sliders might be too slow, but for big-way work I don't think it matters one way or the other. We use mesh sliders for noise reduction more than anything. The 4-way had ZP sliders only because of the microline. We had a problem at Perris with some broken lines on deployment due to the opening speed of the lightning with a mesh slider combined with the inability for Spectra to stretch like Dacron does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remko 0 #65 December 8, 2005 QuoteCongrats to everyone. And I say that `everyone' should be taken very literally. That includes you crewdogs/dogettes that were on the bench, and the boogie jumpers too. Without you it would have been impossible to build the 85-way. You deserve just as much recognition as the rest of us Thanks for being on the team! Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #66 December 8, 2005 Quote The 4-way had ZP sliders only because of the microline. We had a problem at Perris with some broken lines on deployment due to the opening speed of the lightning with a mesh slider combined with the inability for Spectra to stretch like Dacron does. Do Lightnings open faster than comp Tri's? I know at least one crw team who jumps comp Tri's with microline, with spiders. Don't know if the Russians etc who jump Tri's now have microline, but wouldn't be surprised if they had. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #67 December 8, 2005 From what I've seen Lightnings open slower, but you do have to take into account that these were the very big boys (the base) and opening at 18,000 feet (well only 15,000 feet msl in perris but still)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plastic 0 #68 December 9, 2005 I used to jump a comp tri and did not notice any difference in the openings as such, you can pack either to open fast or slow. We had dennis dodonov from the russian wolves team coaching us when we did 8-way training in russia this summer and he was doing video for us using his old team tri 120 and it most certainly did not have microline but they do use spider sliders and pack nose down with the brakes unstowed but roll the nose right the way in. Nobody in their right mind would have microline on a competition crw canopy and personally i would not do crw with anybody who had microlines at all, however i do appreciate that the wr was an unusual scenario. plastic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #69 December 9, 2005 Quote Nobody in their right mind would have microline on a competition crw canopy and personally i would not do crw with anybody who had microlines at all, Hmmm I'll ask the French guys, curious what they're jumping now. But the Dutch guys have (well used to have, no team this year unfortunately) microlined tri's 120 and 99. They do pack brakes undone, and they're shortlined. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #70 December 9, 2005 What were the stats on the record. Number of Aircraft used. Number of mals. Number of wraps. etc. Congrates on the record to everyone involed. Can't wait to see the 100 way. DQ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plastic 0 #71 December 9, 2005 good point, i have competed against dutch teams over the years, always pretty good teams as well. Here is a point for comment about microlines and if the risks match the advantages. In world meet 1998 russian rotation team set new world record 20 rotations on practice round, on the competition they score 20 rotations on 7 out of 8 jumps and on 8th jump they score 19 which is the throwaway round (is that impressive, they throw away a 19 which was the old world record) leaving them with an average of 20. This is on tri 120 with no microline. No other competition team has come close to this average in 7 years and in fact to my knowledge only american roatation team also in 1998 has even scored a 20. The russians also since moved world record up to 22 although the average has never been much over 20. So if russian can average 20 without needing microline is it possible that microline would help the other teams to catch them, i think no. If microline helped that much and other teams could average 20 and the russians used microline and would average higher. On the other side doing competition you are pushing things to the limit to try to get better and faster, you always have high risk of wraps, and bad ones, i have been in one or two myself which have left me with line burns, with microline they would have been much worse and could cause very serious injury. So is microline necessary, my opinion is no. If you cannot average 20 rotation then you need to work on your technique not buy microline to try to help you go faster. Rotation is only an example, i think the same for all crw but I do accept that world record was different, but for most of us we will not be building 85way at weekend. I would however be interested to hear opinion from other people. Also congratulations to those on world record, including three people from my 8-way team. Not me though, getting too old. regards plastic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #72 December 9, 2005 QuoteWhat were the stats on the record. Number of Aircraft used. Number of mals. Number of wraps. 4 Aircraft, Casa for the base, 2 Otters flew by at 15, and the trail Casa flew by at 12... No mals or wraps on the record jumps.. Don't recall any mals during the week but I could be wrong about that. A handful (4-5?) maybe of cutaways in the week before the record... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #74 December 10, 2005 I've actually got a set of 6 Dutch microlined Tri's at the moment. Everyone is too scared to jump them. Flacid appendages!!!!!! I agree that micro lines make the canopies fly more efficiently. BUT. . . . . . . There is no point shaving your chest hair if your swimming stroke is up to shit!!!!!!!!!!!! And in case you did not understand that metaphor, I also think that until your technique puts you in the top couple of teams in the world, don't worry too much about micro physics and equipment. Work on your technique. There is no real point in trying to save 1/100 of a second with microline (guesstimate based on nothing) if you are averaging average scores. Case in point, we left for a training camp in the USA in 2003 unable to get past 14's in rots. Three days into the camp, we were lucky to get double figures. Then we suddenly challenged people's comfort zones (team bitch session). Two days later, the majority of our jumps were 15's. Since then, we have had scratch teams with no training getting 16's. This has all been achieved via technique (great coaching from Jim/Fio) and team/individual psychology. This was all done on clapped out Lightnings in the 143/126 range. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krkeenan 0 #75 December 10, 2005 Quote No mals or wraps on the record jumps.. Don't recall any mals during the week but I could be wrong about that. A handful (4-5?) maybe of cutaways in the week before the record... The only "malfunction" was J. Sikorsky with a pilot chute in tow for a while on one of the 49-ways. He was open too low for his slot.====================== Seasons don't fear the Reaper, nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
