Before you slam your gear manufacturer....

[arlo 0]

I've noticed that alot of people are very quick to slam the (not necessarily THEIR) gear manufacturer about discrepancies.

Maybe this will help clear things up a bit for some folks. When you order a container or canopy thru a dealer, it is both yours and the dealer's responsibility to make sure everything is in order. If you mail/phone order something and you have to give the dealer measurements, please make sure those measurements are correct. that whole "measure twice, cut once" thing is very applicable. make sure all the "blanks" are filled in on the order form. A good dealer will also double verify what you have done. A good dealer will also question anything out of the ordinary just to make sure the intent of the order was met. Once all that paperwork is complete, THEN the manufacturer gets the order (this makes three links in the chain of command already). All they have to work with is what the dealer gave them. If they have any questions about your order, they will call the dealer for clarification. This can include things like embroidery, odd size, etc. Please don't assume that manufacturers are idiots. they have been doing this for a long time and they can size containers, etc because they know more about it than most of us do. :)

Your order will usually sit in the paperwork process for a couple weeks. I used to be a bit irritated by this, but i've found that this is a blessing in disguise. I think that they build in this fluff because inevitably, most people change their order ("that's the souuuuuuund of inevitability"). whether it's a change in a cell color, canopy size, flap color, pinstriping, whatever, that seems to be the nature of people...last minute changes. you're spending a lot of money on a new item and you want it to be perfect. So does the dealer. :) everyone in the chain wants the customer to be extremely satisfied with their purchase because frankly, it means return business and it's good customer relations.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that people are quick to blast the manufacturers for making mistakes that aren't their mistakes. If something wasn't specified, why assume that the manufacturer knows that?

Too, dealers should be there to provide customer service. Please don't call the manufacturers and ask them a bazillion questions about your order (when is it gonna be ready? etc). If you want to know, call your dealer. that IS what the dealer is there for...to answer any questions you may have about your stuff. If the dealer doesn't answer your questions to a level that satisfies you (don't ask for the meaning of life, either ;), THEN maybe an email or call to the manufacturer is in order. All the phone calls and bombardment (i'm specifically thinking all the calls to Alti-2 before the neptune's release) do nothing BUT delay, which feeds the need to bitch about a late product. But if the dealer is not meeting your needs, then maybe a call to the manufacturer is what NEEDS to happen.

Oh yeah, if you are unsure about anything, ASK YOUR DEALER TO CLARIFY....please. there's nothing worse than having an unanswered question but being afraid to ask someone because you don't want to be too inquisitive. ASK. that is your right as a customer.

We're all in this together to get folks their equipment asap and to get them exactly what they want. there's not alot more exciting than getting your first new rig or new canopy. it's very rewarding to the dealer as well to see happy customers. but please, think about what you're doing to the manufacturer before you blast them. hey, if THEY f-ed up, then have at it. hell, i'll lead the way. but I would venture to say that most of the time what you're raising hell about isn't even their fault. it usually lies with yourself and the dealer. oh yeah, give the "guilty" party a chance to correct their mistake..in a timely manner, of course. that's only fair. but expect it to be taken care of in a reasonable amount of time. it shouldn't take 6 months to resolve a problem. it's unacceptable.

i hope this helps folks understand a little more about the ordering process and how we can help each other get the equipment we want and keep everyone happy during the entire process.

blues,
arlo

edited to add: my post doesn't stem from any frustration on my part over any of my customers. hell, i have outstanding customers. :) i just saw a trend that needed to be addressed. :)

[Pablito 0]

Really cool!!!
you rock Arlo thanks!!

"If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first"
Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito

[towerrat 0]

well said Arlo.
----------------------------------

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[riggerrob 643]

Reminds me of when I was Customer Service Manager at Rigging Innovations.
Initially I got frustrated by Mondays because the phone never stopped ringing long enough for me to do any sewing. Half of these phone calls never resulted in anything landing in my loft.
After repeated phone calls - from the same customer - I finally asked the guy if my time would be better spent answering the phone or sewing on his rig?

[lauras 0]

Good advice, Miss Hotpants.

I find that as a rule, skydivers tend to be a fickle bunch. And they talk a lot. They respond very quickly to feedback (duh, thus the success of DZ.com), and sometimes that will bite a manufacturer or dealer in the ass, deserved or not.

Gear ain't cheap and for most jumpers, it's a huge investment. I think it behooves us skydivers to be smart consumers, to do our homework and make decisions based on educating ourselves and seeking the advice of those that we trust.

That said, it is also the obligation of the manufacturers to provide customer service until it's coming out the ears. It is the obligation of the gear dealer to help educate the consumer and to relay to manufacturers what the word on the dz is. Nothing cheeses me off more than the surly person on the phone saying "Yeah, well, it's in process, nothing I can do, so piss off." Those are the times when I want to take the "Customer Service" person aside and say "If you hate your job so much, you should quit."

Anyway, I digress. You're right, Arlo - it's a hand in hand exercise.

[dgskydive 0]

I agree with what has been said as well. One thing I would like to add is the wait time on custom built items is for sure out of the dealers hands. Once the order has been taken and sent to a manufacture it is now there responsiblity to meet the completion date. There is nothing worse then telling a customer that their container is not ready! I can and do relate to the frustration that comes from forking over thousands of dollars for something and then not getting it on time. I know wait time plays a big part in the selection of your gear for a lot of people. I have a feeling some companies intentionally tell people the time is shorter then it really is. That is bad business and only hurts in the long run. I know that the dates given for rigs is usually an ESTIMATED completion date but it shouldn't take another month past that date to get it unless they can give you a really good reason why. If it is going to take 25 weeks then tell people that. Don't tell them 20 weeks and then add 4 or 5 more on because they got real busy all of a sudden. How would they like it if I decided to not pay for another 4 or 5 weeks? Sorry I started to rant. Just remember not to shoot the messenger when your stuff isn't on time. That is usually not the dealers fault. Unless they didn't order it on time like they should have!

Dom

[HeatherB 0]

Ooh, ooh, can I add something?
It really is not hard for a manufacturer to control their production times. A few days here and there, sure, s*** happens, production workers are out sick, something is noticed in final inspection and the gear has to be sent back down the line again, things like that. A few days here and there sometimes cannot be avoided.

And yes, the dealer cannot control how long it takes to make your container/canopy...don't attack them :)

But customers, please do not plan your life around having a new piece of gear on exactly the ESTIMATED date of completion/delivery. I remember ppl who would order their gear exactly 6 weeks before leaving the country, going to a big boogie, etc when the estimated time was just that, 6 weeks. If you cut it really close and something is noticed in final inspection, a certain type of material is late coming in, etc. you might not be able to bring your spanking new gear back home on the plane with you (to avoid customs fees perhaps, not that I advocate that ) or have it for the big boogie....and then you're all upset and have to re-arrange plans. Not fun.

So think ahead....most manufacturers do their best to give accurate delivery times but don't go insane on the customer service rep if there is a slight delay.

Of course, this is not from experience, noooo...all the Wings customers I dealt with had perfect tempers!

Oh, one more thing, yes there is often a period of days or weeks (even months with some companies right now, ugh) before your rig/canopy order is actually processed and the work is actually begun on it. However, sometimes if not many orders are coming in, your order might go through to production right away! So, be sure that you are completely happy with your order forms, because you might not have that chance to make corrections!

I remember a Wings customer whose rig had already finished final inspection (it had been 6 weeks since he ordered the rig and he knew the delivery times were around 6 weeks) and he called to completely change his color scheme. Gotta love it.

OK, I'm done being really wordy.

[GroundZero 0]

yea....


EXACTLY what she said!


Chris

Precision Aerodynamics

chris@precision.net

[skymedic 0]

Quote

Of course, this is not from experience, noooo...all the Wings customers I dealt with had perfect tempers!

I was a perfect gentleman!!!!! and YOU my dear..are the BOMB and then some. Paige isn't too bad eather I might add.

Now I feel guilty bothering you all those times....but I love my rig!!!!!

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[HeatherB 0]

Quote

Now I feel guilty bothering you all those times....but I love my rig!!!!!

You were no trouble at all!

Sometimes I miss talking to skydivers all day long, but it's also nice to be outside the industry. I can afford to be a tunnel whore now. You gotta have priorities!

Oh, random thought - rush orders - sure, take advantage of them if they're offered and you want your gear faster...But personally I don't think they should be offered to the customer unless they don't affect the delivery times of "normal" orders.