PsychoPack questions

[phoenixlpr 0]

Ive read this: http://precision.aerodynamics.com/psycho/psycho_pack.htm.
Ive some things unclear:

Step 11:"Here's a good look at the bridle attachment ring at the center of the roll. It would help if you had a six inch extention with a supplemental bag-stop ring . You will see why in the next step."

Im jumping with a rig without any bridle attachment ring or supplemental bag-stop ring.

I got the point of Step 12 to put ring to ring. So what to do? Do I have to get something like that there? Is it inportant to get a "six inch extention with a supplemental bag-stop ring" or is it a good to have? What are the pitfalls of PsychoPack ?

[steve1 5]

I learned to psycho-pack using the same web sight that you have given. Your bridal extension attaches on the top of you canopy and then to the loop or ring on the very end of your bridal inside your bag. Some people don't use this extension. Maybe your rigger can make one for you and help you attach it. Don't be surprised if most folks don't have a clue what psycho packing is. A lot of jumpers have never heard of it. I'm the only one who packs this way at my D.Z. Many people think it's totally unsafe, because it's different and has this crazy name. I've got about 200 jumps with a psycho pack so far, and it works great, in my opinion. There's very little effort involved to getting the air out and it slips right into the bag. I've had nice openings with it. There's been a lot of posts both pro and con for packing this way. You might want to do a search for these...Steve1

[Aviatrr 0]

You can psycho-pack without the 6 inch extension or the bag stop ring....but I do suggest having the extension. I psycho-pack every canopy I jump(even the Lightning), and I often pack 'em without the bridle extension. I have bridle extensions on my primary canopies, though. It's just a piece of webbing with a loop at each end. Your rigger can make it in 5 minutes. I have never used the "supplemental bag stop ring".

If you are psycho packing without the extension, just pull the attachment point toward the outer edge of the packjob after you roll it. The primary reason for the extension is to eliminate(or reduce) wear on the canopy in the area where you roll it around the bridle. After many, many jumps(usually several hundred) small pinholes can become noticeable in the area that the bridle rubs. The extension greatly reduces, and almost eliminates, this problem. Hopefully you understand this.....I'm not great at explaining things like this in writing.

Don't worry about what others have to say about psycho-packing unless they are very experienced at it. I have made several hundred jumps on psycho packs, and only had a couple bad openings, none resulting in mals. On the other hand, I have had many, many problems with canopies that were pro-packed by packers that I know well and their packing is great.

Mike

[phoenixlpr 0]

Im one of the smallest "fish" there. Im about to buy my first rig. Ive just learnt how to ProPack. The first part is cool, organized and fast. But on the ground that a same mass like before. Out bigger fishes are rather conservative in packing: flat-pack for students, Pro-Packing for them.......... Thanks for your answer anyway.

[guesswhere 0]

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I psycho-pack every canopy I jump(even the Lightning)

does that slow down the openings much?

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[fergs 0]

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Im one of the smallest "fish" there. Im about to buy my first rig. Ive just learnt how to ProPack. The first part is cool, organized and fast. But on the ground that a same mass like before. Out bigger fishes are rather conservative in packing: flat-pack for students, Pro-Packing for them.......... Thanks for your answer anyway.

Hey Gabor,

I tried to email you but it bounced back.

I see you're in Finland. I'm in Australia and some years ago we hosted a Finish exchange student for 7 or 8 months. Suvi was a pleasure to have live with us and left us with a very good impression of anyone from Finland!

Anyhow, I've been packing parachutes for close to 40 years - all types of canopies. Of course, the last 25 years has been pretty much only square canopies - and the last 10 has been pretty much only zero porosity square canopies (except for reserves).

As with everyone else at the time, I pro-packed anything zero porosity. But I've always been a pretty fast packer, so to be slowed down trying to keep a propack bundle neat so it would go into the deployment bag was a frustration for me. The first time I saw an article about psycho packing in a parachutist magazine, I embraced it. That was 6 or 7 years ago. Since then I have not pro packed even once. And since then I have had identical openings from my psycho pack jobs - staged, soft, on heading, around 6 or 700 feet from pitching the pilot chute to being fully suspended under the canopy.

Now I cannot guarantee that this will continue forever - but I am personally extremely happy with the results of psycho pack jobs as far as consistent openings are concerned.

But the best aspect for me is ease of packing. From laying the canopy down and stepping out of my harness, I'm always finished packing in 6 to 7 minutes (I cheat a little by stowing my brakes the moment I land, before walking to the packing area).

My own habit is to:
1. Lay the lines over my shoulder and dress the nose, same as a pro pack.
2. Then I simply wrap the tail around all and lay it down, upside down (compared to a pro pack) - without dressing any fabric first.
3. Open the tail out to see the canopy and "sweep" excess canopy material and lines under the bundle, pushing up, under and away from the harness end. This basically is achieving what most people do when standing up and dressing all the fabric - but my way takes only a few seconds - whereas it seems most people take a number of minutes doing it when standing up.
4. I then halve the leading edge and roll 2 or 3 rolls in from outside to the centre cell. So each half rolls in to the centre and ends up with the centre cell poking out from between the two rolled nose sections. Not sure, but I suspect this assists having it open on heading each time - the centre cell is the only one exposed, so it hits the air first, a micro second before either side unrolls. Anyhow, it's a theory, at least, hahaha.
5. Pull each tail bit and lay on the sausage shaped bundle to triangulate the canopy
6. Triangulate again to make the thin sausage shape. With every triangulation fold, I the put a knee onto it to control. Fold again, kneel on it. I finally end up with a knee on the bundle close to the lines end, another knee 3/4 up close to the bridle attachment end. So I'm kneeling at 90 degrees to when I started packing - pilot chute to my left, harness/container to my right. It cannot unwrap even a bit, as my knees are controlling it all the time.
7. Pull the bridle ring out to the side and then roll the pack job tightly from the top to the lines. Keep knees in place until the roll comes to them - again, it's all about controlling the pack job with your knees.
8. Place my knee against the side of the roll and slide the bag over the opposite end of the roll, pushing all against my knee so it slips into the first corner of the deployment bag very fast and easily. Don't forget, the bag must go on upside down to what a propacker is used to, as you will untwist it very shortly.
9. Pop the bag onto the other side
10. Rotate the bag half a turn to undo the twist that was put into the lines when earlier laying the canopy down. Visually check the lines to make sure you rotated the right way. If you did it correctly, there'll be no twist in the lines. If you rotated the wrong direction it will have a full twist, so untwist it before proceeding.'
11. Stow the lines, close the pack and run to the manifest to make the next load.

A number of times I've been able to exit early in a load, do my free fall thing, open, fly to landing area, land, psycho pack, and make the next load with the L410 not shutting down. I can make heaps of jumps a day this way when possible.

As far as documented evidence that psycho is a harder opening, that is certainly not my personal experience. I have found the exact opposite!!

Incidentally, I made a really nice wingsuit jump on Monday morning - out of a balloon in a lovely spring-time Canberra morning. It was a great way to start the week (and my birthday, by coincidence).

So, Gabor, that's my psycho pack story. I'd be delighted to answer any other questions you may have. Where in Finland are you? How is jumping there? Our winter has just finished and so I'm looking forward to warmer weather.

Blue Skies,

Fergs

[Aviatrr 0]

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does that slow down the openings much?

I, personally, don't think it really slows the openings down much....some people will say different....but my openings are pretty consistent(altitude-wise) whether I pro pack or psycho pack. The big thing, for me, was that it tamed the Sabre Slammers I used to get on the 'ole canopy. It is much easier to bag the canopy(especially if it's a tight fit) when you psycho pack it. Some manufacturers say NOT to psycho pack their canopies, but I have done it with every major brand and not had any problems...and it always gives me good openings(except for the unavoidable occasional slammer on a Lightning).

Mike

[skymedic 0]

I psycho pack everything I jump...it makes for a faster in the bag time...better openings(for me at least)...I love to freak out all the pro pack and side pack only people at Archway(one of my favorite parts)...and it is what I was taught as a student!!!!!!

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[GroundZero 0]

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I psycho pack everything I jump...it makes for a faster in the bag time...better openings(for me at least)...

me too!


Chris

If anyone has any questions about psycho-packing, feel free to contact me directly...chris@precision.net

[phoenixlpr 0]

Thanks 4 your answer. Anyway dont let you confused! Im Hungarian but living in Finland :)! Im living in Lappeenranta and jumping in Immola(next to Imatra).

Safe landings