Landing a wingsuit

[sigma40sw 0]

I don't know if this has ever been brought up before, but I have an idea. I have never jumped a birdman suit so I really have no idea what i'm talking about, but I'd like to hear some responses from people who have. In theory, if you were to put a stunt man pillow on the back of a tractor trailer, drive it down a road a 65-70mph, the landing of a wingsuit on that pillow would be survivable. I understand it's probably more than impossible to hit a moving truck, but it's something i've been thinking about. This method makes the horizontal and vertical speed survivable. Let me know what you think? No, I'm not going to try it.

[cobaltdan 0]

personally i would take a huge powder covered 50 degree mountain slope over an ity bity moving truck. but either way,
good luck and in all probability goodbye.
many people have heard the incorect story that patrick de. g. was trying to land a wing suit down a snow covered mountain. i was told by adrian n. that this story came about because he was fitting ski skids to the chest of a suit for patrick. the intention was not however to land on a slope but to take off from one.
happy daydreams (i used to have a great one of tracking into a pile of hay and walking away)
sincerely,
dan

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

The thing about landing a suit is that becuase of all the forward movement, what's going to impact first? Your head.
When you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or you're loose, its how drunk you get.

[fatz 0]

ok i only have 1 jump so i definately don't know what i am talking about. But given that the boys docked on the weekend, at I think they said a vertical 35mph, and a horizontal 60-70mph, it would be more than reasonable to say that there is a chance you could maybe land one on your back in a lake, you would end up skimming across the water, it would hurt like crazy but!! I used to go behind a slingshot bungie on a friends boat, the boat would do 90mph, and the slingshot would travel even faster.... If you fell off that you just roll on your back and it is suprisingly safe. Add a 35mph vertical force to that and it may be a whole lot different, all i'm saying is that i'd probably try it on a lake before anywhere else.
fatz

[SkyMissy 0]

I think that rolling on your back would cause the lift of the wings to be exerted downward, causing your vertical speed to increase (I would think) significantly. I could be wrong..??..HELP!
13,500' to the ground. We're dressed like clowns. The door's open. Hit it!

[cobaltdan 0]

skymissy: basically a rogalo wing is a piece of fabric, cut i.e. like a square with three struts, one down the center from corner to corner, the other two on the leading edges. the fabric is not tensioned but loose and will blow into 2 conical arcs. a wing suit functions the same way. if you flip unto your back the wing blows upward forming the same shape as if you were face down. your body is the center strut your arms the leading edge struts. when you go on to your back you are not now flying with an upsidedown airfoil.
interesting note: as wingsuits wings work by forming a rogalo type wing, on a wing suit design such as the classic it makes little difference if there is a single surface or double surface wing. robert's early prototypes were single surface wings instead of double surface ram air, and they were equally efficient. of course it does not look as cool, and the design made way for large area wing designs such as the skyflyer.
sincerely,
dan

[SkyMissy 0]

I'll buy most of that. However, just looking at stills of birdmen in action, it sure looks like the suit is put together with the leading edges of the front wings going over the arms; so I would think that inverting would provide at least a less smooth airfoil. The back wing looks to also be sewn to the top of the jumper's ass. OK, maybe not directly to the jumper's ass...
13,500' to the ground. We're dressed like clowns. The door's open. Hit it!

[Zennie 0]

I was browsing the Birdman site and they had this in their FAQ...
Q: Can I fly on my back?
A: Yes, but the wing will not be that effective as flying belly to earth.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[quade 4]

Also in that same FAQ;
Q: What if I land in the water?
A: If you don't have immediate help, avoid this situation by all means. This suit was made for fish.
and

Q: Can I land the wing suit?
A: Serious injury or death may result after such a foolish attemp.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[Jeremie 0]

Another question: assuming you can fly on your back, land on water or snow slowly enough... who wants to try first?
It's not like you can make a second pass if you screw the first approach...

[Engovatov 0]

>personally i would take a huge powder covered 50 degree mountain slope
From my skiing experience - nice smooth packed snow is much better. You just need to minimize velocity component perpindicular to the slope and keep your extremities together... Landing a long jump into powder nearly broke my back as I dug in and was thrown out.
I guess that having a smooth stiff boots to slide on, and contacting snow with your feet first and airbraking after that will allow one to survive.
Hey, speed skiers regurarly fall at close to 100mph..

[SkyMissy 0]

So, if your spotting skills and depth perception are a little off do you:
A) Go long and "land" somewhere near the parking lot on flat ground? (OUCH)
or
B) Go short, and hit the uphill side of the peak? (OUCHer)
13,500' to the ground. We're dressed like clowns. The door's open. Hit it!

[Engovatov 0]

>So, if your spotting skills and depth perception are a little off do you
Given that modern canopies have speed in the same ballpark as the wingsuit, and people do land them, every now and on, I would guess that hitting a chosen slope, mile long, is not the hardest part..
If anybody decides to do that I would sure go to watch.. ;))

[quade 4]

Quote

Given that modern canopies have speed in the same ballpark as the wingsuit . . .

Not even close.
You'll notice that in the recent docking maneuver that the wingsuit was near a stall and the overloaded canopy had to be front risered.
What's the highest wing loading on a canopy you've seen to date be successfully landed?
I don't know for certain, but I'm guessing that a wing suit is loaded at least 4 times that. That means the airspeed at touchdown, if everything else were equal would be much, much greater.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[Engovatov 0]

>Not even close.
Well, maybe as a physicist I am used to define "ballpark" as "order of magnitude" ;-)
Well - at least we know there may be an overlapping regime.
My point was that it should be quite feasible to maneuver a wing suit onto a reasonably sized slope, just as it is possible to land a high performance canopy or a hanglider..I was not talking about touchdown speed ..
Then, as we know for a fact that a controlled touchdown with packed snow, with speed along the surface well above 65 - 80 mph is survivable (speed skiing is routinly exceeding 100 mph)... we just need to find a crazy enough guy to do it - he will live.
Wingsuit at 35mph descent, 65mph velocity landing on ~30deg slope
is 50% slower then a speed skiing fall..
The problem is - all crazies are jumping motocross bikes or drag race on streets - they do not have enough money/persistence/intelligence to learn skydiving.. ;-)
Come on - we need just one guy..

[quade 4]

Ah, well, as an engineer, my ballpark is 20 percent and I really like my estimates within 5 percent. quade
http://futurecam.com

[cobaltdan 0]

the largest sail area wingsuit is a skyflyer and has about 9 square feet of wing.
heaviest loaded canopy landed is in the 3.7#/' range
sincerely,
dan

[Iflyme 0]

Quote

drag race on streets

I would suggest that the people who drag race on our streets are STOOPID, rather than crazy...
I'm confident someone WILL safely land one day without deploying a parachute -- I just worry about those who go before, and WON'T safely land...
"There's nothing new under the sun"

[Zennie 0]

My personal take is that if something can be done it eventually will be. I personally think landing a wingsuit (not today's technology, necessarily) can be done.
However, our Birdman friends might want to take a lesson or two from the Southern Flying Squirrel. Interesting little critters. They'd make a cool pet. Sit back and watch 'em swoop the cat.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[GroundZero 0]

Holy shit! That's it! Take a look at the attachment, notice the difference between the attached squirrel wing planform and that of a wingsuit...
You're brilliant! No need for cutaway wings. we'd be able to reach everything... (I'm sending this pic to Jari and Robert... Skyflyer... hmmmm... to make it better we call it "2"!)
Thanks for the working example of the landable wing suit!
Chris

[GroundZero 0]

oops... here's the attachment...
landable wingsuit design...

[quade 4]

Zennie --
1st rule of engineering -- not everything scales.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[VectorBoy 0]

Do you think they'll sew me up one thats covered in fur with a long tail so the girls will come over and pet me when my tails standing straight up?

[Zennie 0]

Quote

1st rule of engineering -- not everything scales.

True, but implicit in that statement is that some things do. You'll never know until you try.

Quote

You're brilliant! No need for cutaway wings. we'd be able to reach everything... (I'm sending this pic to Jari and Robert... Skyflyer... hmmmm... to make it better we call it "2"!)

Geez gang, lighten up a smidge. I'm not saying that if we make a flying squirrel suit we'll be able jump from tree to tree or even land the thing. I'm not even advocating making a flying squirrel suit.
All I'm saying is that we have an obvious model in nature that seems to be able to land itself (into vertical structures no less) just fine and maybe it should be studied to try and understand how it does what it does.
No things don't usually scale exactly. Early attempts to create flying machines by creating a mechanical "bird" failed miserably. But still, but studying birds, we gained at least a better understanding of the mechanics of flight. That was then applied to eventually create the airplane.
Now it may turn out that it isn't possible to land a wingsuit. But if the Wright Brothers had just accepted conventional wisdom that flight was impossible we'd stil be sitting on the ground.
I personally think that's where things are heading with wingsuits. No I won't be the one to try it. But if you think the statement in the FAQ is Jari's personal declaration that he'll never try to land a wingsuit then I think you may be reading more into it than I do (sounds like a legal disclaimer to me).
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[GroundZero 0]

... I was serious in my response above...
Notice how the wing area is increased by allowing the arms (front legs) to reach forward? As close as we are in this "infant" stage of wingsuit flight and development, any new idea can be a large advance.... I was honestly intrigued by the flying squirrel "planform".
Remember, I am a believer... (that wingsuits will be landed one day.)
Chris