pull out with birdman suit

[skygod7777 0]

i'm sure this has been asked before, but can u use pull-out with a birdman suit. i have heard you can't, but i would like to know for sure. and if you can't, why not???? i don't understand what the problem would be.

later

[ManBird 0]

There's a good chance that your wing's burble would prevent the pullout from getting clean air.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[Sonic 0]

Download the manual from the bird man web site. It says throwaway only. I guess cos of the burble behind you and the less chance the pc has of getting clean air.

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It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[bobsoutar 0]

I was told no at my briefing because the bridle line is shorter and the PC is more likely to get caught in the burble.

I normally jump a pull out system but was glad of the BOC on my first 2 birdman jumps. Couldn't locate the toggle initially and had to run my hand along the BOC to find it - the pad would have been more difficult to find and get hold of.

[arlo 0]

Quote

i'm sure this has been asked before, but can u use pull-out with a birdman suit. i have heard you can't, but i would like to know for sure. and if you can't, why not???? i don't understand what the problem would be.

later

Not just no, but HELLLLLLLLLLLL no.
hope this helps,
arlo

[schafdog 0]

I recall the malfunction rate being extremely high when BM tested the pull out system - something in the region of about 70% + ! One big reason is that the main container opens when you "pull" the pud of your pull out system. And you can just imagine the swirling that takes a hold of the bag. The burble being so different to a conventional skydivers.
It is better to have your pilot chute already out there, catching air and being an anchor while you fall away, allowing the bag to come out of your pack alot cleaner - which is the throw out system.
It is tried and proven! It works!
Slow soars - Kevin

[ikenever 1]

Education or opinion? I have read the replies to pullout with Birdman suit. First as a reply to the short bridle quote, bridles can be manufactured at any length for pullout pilot chutes kill line or not. Opinions have been stated on one pilot chute or another being caught in a burble. Do we honestly think this? A pilot chute is a pilot chute. When you throw the B.O.C type, it is inverted (handle is sewn to the apex. When you pull and throw the pullout style, it is already upright and ready to inflate. There is a burble behind you reguardless of which design you chose. That burble is a phenome down draft that occurs on your back as you are face down to Earth. That down draft makes it difficult for your 5 to 12 lbs. canopy to hop or get sucked off your back. The 2 ounce pilot chute will surely be more eager to leave your back than your main canopy. I have been jumping a pullout pilot chute since 1977 with zero hesitations. Maybe because of an aggressive pull at dump time. As far as the handle location and whether or not it is easy to grab and pull, remember both are usually located in the exact same spot as one another! One thing to think about is that your reserve container is open as your reserve pilot chute is looking for that clean air if you get my point

B.J. Alexander

[schafdog 0]

To some extent I agree here. But we can only go on what has been tested and tried. BM tested pull out systems - but they had a very high malfunction rate. One of the reasons being that the container opens when you pull the "pull out pilot chute". If there is any hesitation, then the risk of the bag and pilot chute becoming entangled are increased. The risk of the bag doing strange things are also increased. If there is a hesitation on a normal BOC - the pilot chute is the only thing out there in the burble.
One system offers more risk than the other - in my opinion of course.
Long soars
// Kevin

[Sonic 0]

Remember that the handle is sewn straight onto the pilot chute on a throwaway rig, whereas on a pull out it is quite a distance away. It's for this reason pull out is not a good idea.

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It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[ikenever 1]

Kevin, I have manufactured a ZP pilot chute with a 9 foot bridle to use with my Vector III for Birdman jumps as recommended by the manufacturer. I am still confused on the main D bag doing strange things during a pilot chute hesitation. Did someone tell you that the bag flys out of the container with little or no resistance? The 12 different containers that I have owned over the last 28 years have staged bag extraction only after the pilot chute snatched it from my back. I am interested in seeing the backup data on the test results conducted by Birdman if and when it becomes available. Please read the first line of my reply again. Thanks
B.J. Alexander

[ikenever 1]

Alex, The distance between the pud handle and pilot chute base is 6". If you deploy with a lazy or half hearted pull/throw a hesitation is probable. It is indeed good advice for you to follow the manufacturers instructions and recommendations as stated by Birdman International.
Thank you for your reply.
B.J. Alexander

[ManBird 0]

I think it's more of a matter of keeping the PC off your tail. If you can throw it out far enough away from you, you minimize the chance of it landing on your tail, if not... sure it will catch clean air, but if it gets in just the wrong position behind and slightly above you, it will get in that turbulence and pissible be thrown down onto your tail (as WSs generally trail violent turbulence behind them as opposed to the standard skydiving burble).

With the Skyflyer, though, the double wing would knock it off, but it's better to not have the bridle on or around you (take this from someone who's had the bridle wrapped around them in a wingsuit) than it is to rely on that opening.

Yes, you can pull and then throw a pullout far enough to get it away from you, but you have a much better chance of maintaining a solid body position due to less movement (inches matters on deployment in a WS), and a much better chance of avoiding the PC landing on your tail and possiblly resulting in a horseshoe. That pud's going to seem a lot less nice when it goes under your right foot and gets some bridle around your leg because you let it go too close to your body while moving forwards at 90+ MPH.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[ikenever 1]

I have noticed that my response and the replies to this particular subject have been viewed by many people. Education is important to us all when it comes to our safety at our sport. As a Rigger, I am committed and legally bound to follow the manufacturers instructions and recommendations when it comes to my work and my personal equipment. Birdman International recommends against pullout style pilot chutes. That is the advice that all of us should follow. My intent was not to favor one over the other nor cloud the issue. This is an open forum for discussion. I have successfully deployed my main canopy over 6000 times with a pullout pilot chute without incident. I am trying to further educate myself on the subject due to some comments made in this forum. I had currently modified my Vector III to a B.O.C to accept a throwout pilot chute with a 9 foot bridle for my Birdman flights.
B.J. Alexander

[schafdog 0]

I dont thnk anyone, especially myself, was concerned about the Pull-out per say, but more about the pull-out with a wing suit. And if you said that you have made jumps with your wingsuit using a pull out, without any incidents, it may have been a different discusion. It is true that there have to be millions of deployments with a pull-out and no problems, but the issue is the Wingsuit and the pull out system. As ever - an interesting discussion.

Long soars
// Kevin