Newbie 0 #1 January 14, 2003 as a newbie skydiver and non wingsuit flyer, please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject. I was watching the 2000 Espace boogie video though, and during a wingsuit tracking dive, the rabbit was in a red wing suit, that looks a lot "fatter" and larger than normal (although this could have been because he was on his back?) Anyway that got me thinking - could wingsuits not be made more baggy perhaps, or with the wings to have a larger surface area with more material, inorder to suck in more air and keep the flyer up for longer? I was just wondering why they were made so tight fitting, with relatively little material between the arms and legs (although i guess it has to be this way to avoid anything interfering with the deployment process? Or something to do with not affecting the flight charachteristics too drastically? I guess it would more likely be a balloon suit, what im describing). Anyway the rabbit who was back tracking almost looks like the air fills the leg section of his suit too. "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #2 January 14, 2003 Yes, air inflates both the arm and leg wings on a wingsuit. The suits have ribs sewn in them, just like a parachute, which keeps the wings' shape. Wings any larger than what is currently on the most advanced suits would give us more problems at pull time. There is only so much extra material you can put before it becomes very difficult to reach your pilot chute without interference from the arm wings. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #3 January 14, 2003 without suspension lines or struts we are at the limit of wing size. wing suits rely on your body and arms to act as struts to form a rogalo wing. additional problems are even if your arms were longer the placement of the front wing is out of place with your center of gravity. sincerely dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #4 January 16, 2003 Chuck, What's your thoughts on cross bracing the wings, or possibly, an inflatable spar. Maybe, the spar would be a little more difficult to collapse, but I think it could be done!!! A more rigid wing produces a cleaner airfoil, and a cleaner airfoil produces more lift. I'm no Aero Major, but these thoughts came to me after a pretty righteous fart. Spizzzarko Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #5 January 16, 2003 cross braces would do nothing as you have no suspension lines. in fact single surface wing suits work just as well as double surface ram air wing suits (they just dont look as cool). if you want to learn more on why do a search on Francis Rogallo. as far as spars on your flexible wingsuit, from a design standpoint : no , from a historic standpoint : no. too easy to kill yourself and the basic problem remains: your center of gravity is too far back to aerodynamicaly match with large arm wings. the next advance is a rigid wing such as the sky ray that places the wing where it should be, further back. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 January 16, 2003 There is an example of a rigid spar wing-suit design hanging from the rafters at the Bombshelter in Perris. All ya gotta do is take one look at it and it's not to hard to figure out why it's not really that great of an idea.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #7 January 16, 2003 It's been tried already,by a friend of the late Patrick,They took a wing suit and made the wing bigger,and tried it in a wind tunnel in France.It's humanly inpossible to keep your arms extended,he held it for about a few sec.It kept folding his arm in,just to much pressure under the arms to keep them extended,if you like i can send you the dvd! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #8 January 16, 2003 QuoteIt's been tried already,by a friend of the late Patrick,They took a wing suit and made the wing bigger,and tried it in a wind tunnel in France.It's humanly inpossible to keep your arms extended,he held it for about a few sec.It kept folding his arm in,just to much pressure under the arms to keep them extended,if you like i can send you the dvd! Uh yeah, I would like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #9 January 16, 2003 Pm me your address and i'll send it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #10 January 24, 2003 Whassssup everyone. Actually we have tried some larger wing designs. There was too much pressure on the arms. Jari has freakishly strong shoulder muscles from 1000s of flights and it was tough for him. Plus, there is the safety factor... too much wing at pull time may not be desirable. In some cases, bigger does not mean better (Ha - had to say it!) I'll let you in on a secret... We'll release a new version of the Skyflyer in a few days at the PIA Symposium. It's not all that different. but does have larger arm wings (not all that much) and a slightly longer and wider leg wing. Jari's been flying it for at least a half year and has seen improved times. I've only made about 10 flights on mine but I love it. It also has a built in grip (a stiffener that your fingers can hook on to - no loops!) on the edge of the wing for those who like to hold the wing edge. The suit won't be available for production for another month. Delivery time is the standard for all suits - currently 8 weeks. Hope to see some of you at the Symposium at our BirdMan booth. Have a great weekend! Best wishes from below-freezing DeLand! ~Kim Slower Faster Longer Kim Griffin Buz Manager BirdMan Inc -Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #11 January 24, 2003 You KNOW I will be there. Hope you kids have some fun lined up for the apres symposium scene. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #12 January 25, 2003 'Bout time. I heard about this suit awhile back, and have been holding off on a Skyflyer upgrade because of this one. I'm stoked. This does raise a question, though. From what I've heard about the new Skyflyer, I think I'd be good to go on it after about 100 GTi jumps (which is where I'd be at when I can afford it). Is this new design different enough to recommend the first Skyflyer to Classic/GTi customers before stepping all the way up? Or would you feel comfortable with someone like me, a GTi flyer that does nothing but WS jumping, bypassing the original Skyflyer? The design doesn't seem too drastically different. I love the stiffener idea. Though on a GTi, I do fly holding the wingtips a lot. A stiffener would definitely reduce the chance of those uneven grabs (more material in one hand than the other) that can throw you off your flight path or even spin you, and probably let you pull the wing out further than loops, too. Awesome. I'm excited."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jari 0 #13 January 28, 2003 Hei Kimi and everybody else. Kim is right, we have tried out some larger wings and sometimes foolishly tested them with a living dummy like me. Fortunately we did our homework and aborted the mission (or flight) as soon as it was impossible to control. The problem with the wings that are not exactly right is that after a while they take control over a jumper. If you compare the the "arm" muscles of the bird and the human you will notise how superior birds "sholders' are to forexample mine. For that reason we have bigger brain i guess, at least sometimes. Kim introduced yesterday the new Skyflyer.3 at the Symposium so i can tell you more about it. It is improved version of the Skyflyer. It has different (read faster) profile, bigger surface area, improved inflation (has to be since the wings are larger), pockets and it's made using new materials and colors which are a step forward from what we used before. It is easier and harder to fly at the same time. You will have more arm and leg movement which gives you more freedom to fly either better or worse. A good flyer can tune it up more and a bad can screw it up. Overall it feels very comfortable to fly but one has to really practise the pull on the ground since the wing really goes over the hacky. Good luck with the symposium Kim and hope to join you soon, my wing muscles need some training .... Jari Jari "Hey, don't be afraid, ever. Because, it's just a ride." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #14 January 28, 2003 oo jari's first post on dz.com! :) my rigger is helping me with a wingtip stiffener design.. i'm really stoked about it, it uses a cutaway cable housed in a flap that flips up a small amount. I'll post pics.. i'm interested in how the stiffener is made on this new suit. any pics? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #15 January 28, 2003 Quoteoo jari's first post on dz.com! :) Not quite Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #16 January 28, 2003 QuoteQuoteoo jari's first post on dz.com! :) Not quite Humm. pupu? :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #17 January 28, 2003 QuoteHumm. pupu? :) Must mean something else in Finnish! :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vesatoro 0 #18 January 29, 2003 QuoteQuoteHumm. pupu? :) Must mean something else in Finnish! :-) Yes it does :) Vesa "Fear is the path to the Dark side" (Master Yoda) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #19 January 29, 2003 *cough*cough* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #20 January 29, 2003 Erno, mistä toi sun profiilin kuva on repästy ? Transformer planeetalta ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #21 January 29, 2003 This is Chuck Blue, your fearless reporter, live from the PIA Symposium in Jacksonville, FL. I have had a hard time staying sober enough to post, but I can say that the new "S-3" is markedly different from the original Skyflyer. Enough so that I went ahead and ordered a new one (White with orange wing fronts, front deflectors, and butt wing). I can't wait to get it. I really like some of the new changes. The vent material inside the arm channel is very smart and will certainly aid in arm-wing inflation. The wider, longer leg wing looks like it will aid in roll stability at pull time as well as providing more lift. I am excited about it. Chuck Blue -a menace to PIA attendees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #22 January 29, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteHumm. pupu? :) Must mean something else in Finnish! :-)Yes it does :)And it's got to be a slang term. After searching four Finnish-English dictionaries, all I could come up with waspupu: (noun) bunnyMaybe I can find a Finn to explain it to me...-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arlo 0 #23 January 30, 2003 i know that the cyber-pup we gave jari last christmas was named pu-pu...could be a connection....but who am i to guess something like that? chuckie b...big brother is watchingggggggggggg you at symposium......... arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #24 January 30, 2003 what up monkey... should i get one?... id like toLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #25 January 30, 2003 Quote chuckie b...big brother is watchingggggggggggg you at symposium......... Who is "big brother" and what is he watching? Am I looking good?Chuckie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
