MikeSoll 0 #1 February 14, 2003 Hello Everyone, This post was created to ask a simple Physics question. In my HS Physics class this question arose. If A person of average weight(mass) jumped from an Atl. of 100,000 feet (really high)! W/ a winged suit. How far could this person travel before being forced to pull his cord. There are so many variables (I.E) Wind direction and speed.... weather conditions... ect. So lets make this here simple... No wind factor. No weather factors.. Weight... determined by the Poster Type of wings also determined by the Poster. Terminal Velocity. 9.8 m/s (meter per second)(29.4 feet per second) the drop itself even w/o wings would take only a few minutes, A person tried this w/o wings and he became the first person to break the sound barrier w/o a airplane or capsule of any sort. I myself do not know the answer, thats why i posted this... If you would all like, please respond to this post ASAP. whether here on Dropzone or @ my address WabujitsuMike@aol.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #2 February 14, 2003 uhm terminal velocity is a wee bit faster then 29.4fps more like 250fps (or close to that) besides the fact that said jumper wouldnt be going terminal because hes in a wingsuitim no expert but two big problems here would be the fact that he wouldnt be able to breath at that height, not to mention the temperature(a chilly -94f), which would require a space suit and 02. theyre are many more variables besides wind direction and speed (this is assuming said jumpers arms wouldn't be ripped off from the higher speeds due to a less dense atmosphere) the jumpers ability being a big one i've come to find my high school physics teacher didnt no jack shit about skydiving, so id take whatever they tell you about it with a grain of salt.(the same thing could also be said about what advice i have to offer) btw the guy your talking about is joseph kittinger http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/kittinger/DI29.htm edited because im severly retarded Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #3 February 14, 2003 Quote btw the guy your talking about is joseph kittinger Not that I'm any more of an authority but another thing to consider is the Kittinger is the only human being to break the sound barrier with his body. Now, it doesn't take a braininac to figure out that ones arms would be pretty well ripped off if the suit didn't blow out going faster than the speed of sound"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #4 February 14, 2003 thats what i was trying to hint at, i remember seeing a while ago a website about a female jumper who was going to attempt a similar jump, without a drouge, it mentioned on the site that she would have to go headdown to keep from losing bodypartsanybody remember seeing that, or have a link to that site?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #5 February 14, 2003 Only female I know of attempting a jump from that high was/is Cheryl Sterns. There was an article on her and a frenchman who are both trying to break the record in popular mechanics back in December. Idon't remember anything about her going head down though."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 February 14, 2003 Cheryl is hoping to fly completly head down for most the jump. www.stratoquest.com As for the wingsuit question... some jumpers are able to achieve 45 degree decent/distance jumps on tracking jumps. That means 1000 feet forward for every foot down. Too bad the wings on a wing suit would'nr be of any help until the air starts to thinken up about 30-40k. The first 60k would be spent trying to go somewhere but going no where fast. Once the jumper starts to encounter the thicker air they can start to track and move, how fast they could move at 35k feet I'm not sure about. Your HS physics teacher has no real clue about skydiving or he's asking you do so a LOT of problem solving and estimating due to the unknowns of flying a wingsuit at those elevations. (I'm not sure many suits have been flown over 25k feet)Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #7 February 14, 2003 >besides the fact that said jumper wouldnt be going terminal >because hes in a wingsuit Actually terminal velocity is defined as the speed where the pull of gravity and the air resistance are at equilibrium, ie. the jumper wont accelerate or decelerate until he changes his body position. -bellyflying terminal velocity would be somewhere around 190km/h, -freeflying @ 250km/h or even more, and -wingsuit terminal at ~80km/h(but that will vary a lot due to factors like the weight/surface ratio of the jumper, and his skill in flying the suit) My physics might be a bit rusty, feel free to correct any mistakes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TB99 0 #8 February 14, 2003 Quote Cheryl is hoping to fly completly head down for most the jump. I hope she's good at head down ... can you imagine how FAR she tracks if once she reaches thicker air she's slightly tipped into a backtrack? A lot of ground distance can be covered accidentally Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #9 February 14, 2003 Cheryl Stearns is quite adept at diving straight head-down. That is the practice used by the great majority of world class stylists to gain speed prior to snapping into the tuck and throwing their first turn. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamT 0 #10 February 14, 2003 *** That means 1000 feet forward for every foot down. *** This is a typo right. Sail planes don't even have ratio's like that. 45 degrees would be a glide ratio of 2:1 i think. 2 feet forward for 1 foot down. edit: actually im wrong, 45 degrees would be 1:1. Arn't people are aproching that in a regular track, without a suite. adam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #11 February 14, 2003 you may want to rephrase the question to be from below 20k' . or better 12k and below. above 20k the air is thin and you will not be able to glide well. at 100 k forget it. not to mention that the longest standing record in aviation history is a jump from that height. if you keep your question to lower altitudes you will not have to figure air density into the equasion and you can have examples of both theory and practice to look at. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #12 February 16, 2003 Quote i've come to find my high school physics teacher didnt no jack shit about skydiving I've come to find that as well. He even asked how we get used to not breathing for so long and all this The thing that shits me the most bout those dudes is that they are right even though i HAVE breathed in freefall its 'impossible' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #13 February 16, 2003 I don't think Kittinger broke the sound barrier...he was close but not faster. Michel Fournier, from France, was in our little city (Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada) for a couple of months last year waiting for government red tape to be cleared and favourable launch conditions for his high altitude record attempt. If all goes according to plan he should break the sound barrier. Lots of information on the English version of his websiteHe plans on using a body position of about 60 degrees...more like a delta or shallow dive. He will be back here in the spring, waiting for the jet stream conditions and ground wind conditions to cooperate. We're looking forward to seeing him and his crew again and hoping he gets a chance to launch. The ground winds have to be extremely calm to inflate the balloon...not something that occurs a lot in this fairly windy part of the world.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #14 February 16, 2003 QuoteI don't think Kittinger broke the sound barrier...he was close but not faster. Just watched the documentry(history channel) on Kittinger and he broke the sound barrier according to what was put out. They list him as the only human to break the sound barrier with just his body."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #15 February 16, 2003 I think the difference is that Kittinger went as fast or faster than the speed of sound...at sea level...but didn't create a sonic boom by breaking the sound barrier by going faster than the speed of sound for the altitude and air density that he was travelling through. At least that is my understanding. I think the question is: Did he go faster than Mach 1.0? If we can find a definitive source for that, then we'll know. I'd bet you a beer Lou that he didn't -- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,447 #16 February 16, 2003 I remember reading that one of the reasons for the drogue he deployed was specifically so that he wouldn't go more than mach 1. Wendy WThere is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #17 February 16, 2003 I just found this, while it says he reached speeds up to 714 miles an hour, it doesn't say he had a sonic boom. http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/eagles/kittnger.htm This one claims he exceeded the speed of sound http://www.balloonlife.com/publications/balloon_life/9510/balloonm.htm Either way, the dude was hauling ass and still holds the record. I'd buy the guy a beer if I met him "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #18 February 16, 2003 Quote I'd buy the guy a beer if I met him or better,he should buy all of us beer,im sure it were the first time he did it Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #19 February 16, 2003 Quote Quote I'd buy the guy a beer if I met him or better,he should buy all of us beer,im sure it were the first time he did it I think this would be one time where an exception coould be made. LOL"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #20 February 16, 2003 Lou,Here's a link that says Kittinger "approached the speed of sound". and yes...I'd buy Joe Kittinger a beer or three too. I'm hoping to be able to buy Michel Fournier a beer...or bottle of champagne...in May or June.Kittinger's jumps and Fournier's attempts were and are dangerous, dangerous, dangerous. A small equipment malfunction and it's game over.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #21 February 16, 2003 lets not forget Cheryl's attempts as well "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #22 February 16, 2003 arent they all attempts until the record is broken?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #23 February 17, 2003 Quote lets not forget Cheryl's attempts as well Definitely not. She is one of the most awesome skydivers in the world. I don't know how many World and US championships she has taken in S&A and Style....but there aren't many, if any, in her league.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #24 February 17, 2003 Quote Quote lets not forget Cheryl's attempts as well Definitely not. She is one of the most awesome skydivers in the world. I don't know how many World and US championships she has taken in S&A and Style....but there aren't many, if any, in her league. doesn't S&A stand for stlye and accuracy? so whu say S&A and stlye?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #25 February 17, 2003 Brain Cramp! -- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
