encinoadam 0 #1 February 18, 2003 This weekend, my pal and I were jumping Birdman. (Note to all busy-bodies: I jump at many different drop zones, so don't assume this incident happened at any particular location, i.e., my home dz) Anyhoo, I was jumping my Classic that I have about fifteen jumps on. My friend was jumping his SkyFlyer that he had two jumps on. On his third jump when he deployed, he ended up with really bad line twists which turned into a spinning mal which he had to chop. He went to his reserve, perhaps too quickly, because he ended up with lines twists there, too. Fortunately, the canopy flew straight and he kicked out of it. He had a similar problem on his second jump, and I also had a similar problem the same day on my Classic (but my canopy, a Spectre 150, still flew straight). What the heck is going on? My guess is that it is not a packing problem, but a body position on deployment issue. Anyway, we spent a lot of time talking about it and just decided to post it here and see what kind of advice we'd get. Anybody?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #2 February 18, 2003 QuoteThis weekend, my pal and I were jumping Birdman. (Note to all busy-bodies: I jump at many different drop zones, so don't assume this incident happened at any particular location, i.e., my home dz) Anyhoo, I was jumping my Classic that I have about fifteen jumps on. My friend was jumping his SkyFlyer that he had two jumps on. On his third jump when he deployed, he ended up with really bad line twists which turned into a spinning mal which he had to chop. He went to his reserve, perhaps too quickly, because he ended up with lines twists there, too. Fortunately, the canopy flew straight and he kicked out of it. He had a similar problem on his second jump, and I also had a similar problem the same day on my Classic (but my canopy, a Spectre 150, still flew straight). What the heck is going on? My guess is that it is not a packing problem, but a body position on deployment issue. Anyway, we spent a lot of time talking about it and just decided to post it here and see what kind of advice we'd get. Anybody?? Humm.. did this just start happening all the sudden? Line twists happen because of the bag not clearing the container "cleanly" which is why the wingsuit mod is out there for rigs.. i have problems with line twists occasionally as well.. hope you guys pull high. what kinda canopy was he jumping ? The skyflyer has a much larger burble to deal with.. how many BM jumps does your friend have? That's some scary shit.. I don't know what the hell he could have done to get the line twists in the reserve.. since you don't have the same type of deployment issue.. what kind of rig did he jump ? Ahh all the questions. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
encinoadam 0 #3 February 18, 2003 Yes, this just happened all of a sudden. In my prior fifteen jumps, I had never had it happen. My friend was jumping a Spectre 190, but wingloads it at about 1.5, versus the 1.2 that I load my 150 at. Ya, we still pull high. My guess is that in a spinning mal, regardless of the type of jump, you should regain stability before pulling silver (altitude allowing, of course!). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #4 February 18, 2003 QuoteYes, this just happened all of a sudden. In my prior fifteen jumps, I had never had it happen. My friend was jumping a Spectre 190, but wingloads it at about 1.5, versus the 1.2 that I load my 150 at. Ya, we still pull high. My guess is that in a spinning mal, regardless of the type of jump, you should regain stability before pulling silver (altitude allowing, of course!). Ah yes if he was in a spin when he hit the silver that makes sense.. i think you should try and get stable if you have alitude.. in this case it sound like he may have had altitude.. of course when you're trained it's chop, pull.. so it was probably instinct to just go for it.. oh well, he's alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
basehoundsam 0 #5 February 18, 2003 A few suggestions.... 1. Always jump a rig with cutaway housings in the risers. 2. Get the Birman bridle, and open corner container mod .IT WILL FIX A LOT OF PROBLEMS!!!! Call Morpheus Technologies, they'll rebuild your old bridle for under 20 bucks, and I think less than 50 for the open corners. 3. Don't get gready with altitude... if your having issues, go back to pulling at five grand for ten or twenty jumps. 4. It's all in your head.... just like any other dicipline of skydiving..... you really need to take a breath and relax at pull time. Collapsing everything for a second or two prior to pull can add a good amount of stability as well. 5. Pay a competent Bird-Cameraman's slot to film your glorious opening. 6. Don't try your first BASE jump till you got at least 100 birdman jumps.(oh where'ld that come from.....) Just my .02 Jay Epstein Ramirez www.adrenalineexploits.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #6 February 18, 2003 Jay is right on target. If your gear works fine on standard skydives, but you are experiencing slow openings or spins, then you need the mods. He is also correct in that the problem might be totally in your head. Openings are the only thing about this that still sketches me out at times. One must absolutely have his shit together at pull time. Smooth is the key. If you are having problems down at the bottom, then you may want to do an entire flight where you do nothing but practice pulls. It is critical that you remain calm and symetrical at pull time. You might be the farthest flying person on the DZ, but if you can't tame the opening you are gonna, eventually, have a really bad experience. I can tell you that chops in your suit are not fun. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fordy 0 #7 February 18, 2003 it's only a small thing, but i have found it works for me and others who have tried it.. during deployment keep the leg wing tightly closed knees together to have minimum exposure to the air with the bottom leg wing. i have in the past had a couple of twists that seemed to happen late in the deployment sequence, i put it down to the surface area of the leg wing angled, acting like a sail and corkscrewing the body around under the inflating main before it has forward speed... i now very rarely get any twists... Fordy sabre 2 107 javelin- no corner mods/ 30" (factory)pc and bridle. then again i may just be lucky Fordy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #8 February 21, 2003 Quote...Morpheus Technologies...I think less than 50 for the open corners.They've done three sets of dynamic corners for me. I paid $35 each.Definitely call them. I've never experienced better customer service.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
encinoadam 0 #9 February 23, 2003 Can someone explain to me why the rig corner mods and the longer bridle will help anything? I'm jumping an Infinity container and a Spectre 150. Is it worth doing mods on this or should I just be careful on deployment? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #10 February 23, 2003 Quote...corner mods...Open corners (whether Morpheus' Dynamic Corners or any other mod) will allow the bag to exit the container more freely.The problem is that when you deploy out of a wingsuit flight, your bag tends to leave toward your feet, rather than straight up. The corners of your rig can catch the bag on the way out, and start it spinning, causing no end of headaches during deployment. Open corners are meant to address this problem.Since it's fairly cheap, and (when well done) will have no negative effects (that I'm aware of) during standard skydives, I'd say it's definitely worth doing.Quote...longer bridle...The longer bridle is intended to get the PC out of the (quite large) burble created by the wingsuit. Again, low cost, and few negatives. There is some chance that the extra bridle could entangle the PC with a weak toss (the flailing wads of bridle and the PC sometimes have weird interactions), but the odds of that are very low.I'd do this one, too.Quote...Spectre 150...Great choice of canopy for a wingsuit. Stable openings are really helpful, especially when you are just learning to fly the suit. I've seen a lot of people who just toss their regular rig on the suit for their first jumps, and end up getting wild openings on small ellipticals, until they've sorted out the deployment (or even after). Good on you for avoiding this problem.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
encinoadam 0 #11 February 28, 2003 Tom - Thanks for the excellent feedback and advice on rig mods. I will look into having both mods completed. As far as my rig, technically, my Spectre 150 is the only main I have. I weigh about 160 pounds, so I think out the door, I am wingloading it at about 1.2 or so. I didn't get this rig with birdman jumps in mind, but I bought it after about 100 RW jumps and it has worked so well for me (sure, one or two mistakes!) that I haven't felt the need to downsize. The openings have been so consistent that - despite pack jobs that need a lot of work - I have never had a cutaway on this rig (had one on my old rig, though). Along these lines... any thoughts on soft-pillow reserves for flying birdman (yes, I have one)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vesatoro 0 #12 March 1, 2003 Quote ... any thoughts on soft-pillow reserves for flying birdman (yes, I have one)? Well, if You are sure You can grab and pull it easily then use it. If not, then don't. Just make sure that the handle cannot bend under the main lift web, and do not use too thick gloves. Vesa BMCI "Fear is the path to the Dark side" (Master Yoda) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #13 March 1, 2003 QuoteJust make sure that the handle cannot bend under the main lift web, and do not use too thick gloves.The scariest skydiving video I've ever seen is exactly that situation. Pillow reserve sucked into the suit, with gloves on. Note that this was on an old prototype Crossbow, so the problem has pretty much been eliminated. Warning: not safe for the faint-hearted.I use a pillow reserve and have used it with the suit with no problems. I never jump with gloves on, though (gotta love California weather).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
