Pantz

[ManBird 0]

Pantz kick ass. Finally flew mine this weekend. I have the BASE version. I was really blown away by how well they fly right of the bat. I wore a freefly jacket and could still keep my arms pretty close in without getting too head-low. There were some screaming uppers on Saturday. It was the kind of day where you could get out and track two miles in jeans and a t-shirt. 3.2 miles away was on the GPS when I ran from the front to the door to exit from 13.5K, and I got back to the DZ at 6K. The forward speed is amazing on these things.

Speaking of forward speed. TALONSKY seriously SMOKED my ass on Sunday. Uh... that doesn't sound right. Anywho, we spent way too much time playing around, cutting through a stiff headwind, that we didn't realize how far we were away from the DZ. At a little over 6K, we turned around and raced back (~from 1.5 miles out). I chickened out and dumped at 5k (was going to dump at 4, anyway, as it's a new canopy), but he kept flying and actually got back before deploying. While his fall rate went up a bit, maybe even significantly, his forward speed coupled with a tailwind gave him some serious glide. I'm guessing it was around 2.4:1. He had to have been going about 140 MPH forwards with the tailwind with a mid to high 50s fall rate.

I'll just keep telling myself that I could have "floated" it back, but I don't think I could have covered nearly as much ground as he did in that same amount of time/altitude. Good stuff.

Edited to add: I wore my Pantz to a strip club the same day I flew them for the first time. They've been properly broken in.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[LouDiamond 1]

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I wore my Pantz to a strip club the same day I flew them for the first time. They've been properly broken in.

NOICE!! they will definately make you go faster now

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[TB99 0]

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He had to have been going about 140 MPH forwards with the tailwind with a mid to high 50s fall rate.

Is that speed even possible, even with a tailwind???

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[ManBird 0]

Yeah, 55 knots behind us (in front of us for most of the jump). 55 knots is roughly 60 MPH, plus around 80, if not more, on his own. Granted, the wind tapers off at lower altitudes, but they were trucking down to about 4K yesterday, where they dropped off quite a bit. On the ground, the 16 knot windsock looked like my Pantz at the strip club. Er... I didn't actually say that, did I?

This is the Northwest, you know? We're about a 45 minute drive from the Columbia River Gorge, where one shall find some of the fastest wind in the world (also the birthplace of windsurfing and kiteboarding). It's not too uncommon to get some screaming wind here.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[TB99 0]

Dude, I don't think 60 MPH behind you will actually translate to 60MPH MORE forward speed ... yes, you will go faster forward, but you won't get THAT much (we're talking about flying with our bodies here, not airplanes or canopies, for clarification's sake). If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[ManBird 0]

We were approximately 1.5 miles away from the drop zone at around 6,300 feet (checked the altitude right after we turned) when we started heading back (as determined by the terrain directly below and being familiar with it). Maybe a bit less. Let's call it 7,000 feet away from the DZ He made it back to the DZ and dumped at maybe 3,500 feet (you'd have to ask, but that's about what it looked like). That's gives him a 2,800 foot descent over 7000 feet, which is a 2.5:1 glide ratio. His average fall rate was just over the mid 50s... probably 56 or 57 MPH during that part of the flight. Given the glide ratio and fall rate, it can be determined that his indicated airspeed was about 140 - 143 MPH (120 knots).

Knowing that the tailwind was between 50 and 55 knots (58 - 63 MPH), that would put his true airspeed at 85 - 90 MPH. Given the distances and speed recorded on the ProTrack, there's no doubt that his indicated airspeed speed was in the neighborhood of 140 MPH. Knowing that one's forward speed in a wingsuit is 90 MPH at the very most, the difference, which matches the reported speed of the wind, would indicate that the uppers contribute fully to one's IAS.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[billvon 3,009]

> Dude, I don't think 60 MPH behind you will actually translate to 60MPH
>MORE forward speed . . .

??? Yeah it will. Why wouldn't it? The wing (your body in this case) only knows airspeed. It will go X knots through the relative wind no matter what the absolute wind is doing. Note that if you open your canopy in such winds the same thing happens - you do 80mph (60+20mph for the canopy's airspeed) downwind, and you back up at 40mph if you try to face into the wind.

[andrewstewart 0]

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> Dude, I don't think 60 MPH behind you will actually translate to 60MPH
>MORE forward speed . . .

??? Yeah it will. Why wouldn't it? The wing (your body in this case) only knows airspeed. It will go X knots through the relative wind no matter what the absolute wind is doing. Note that if you open your canopy in such winds the same thing happens - you do 80mph (60+20mph for the canopy's airspeed) downwind, and you back up at 40mph if you try to face into the wind.

Does this mean that, as far as fall rate goes (vertically, as measured by a ProTrack), the strength of the uppers and their direction relative to the direction you are tracking, is irrelevant?

[VectorBoy 0]

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I wore my Pantz to a strip club the same day I flew them for the first time. They've been properly broken in.

NOICE!! they will definately make you go faster now

[ManBird 0]

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Does this mean that, as far as fall rate goes (vertically, as measured by a ProTrack), the strength of the uppers and their direction relative to the direction you are tracking, is irrelevant?

Vertically, you have to contend with gravity of this big, fat chunk of dirt. If there was a wind blowing you, or some sort of vortex sucking you, upwards with more force than gravity (ie, wind tunnel), then yes, your fall rate would be affected. However, this really doesn't occur naturally while skydiving.

Horizontally, the wind has no other force against it... there's no gravity to fight. So when these particles in the air push you at any speed, your body has no resistance.

This is why you can push your buddy on a jump and send them across the sky horizontally, but if you try to push them up, they'll barely budge (asuming their body position stays the same).

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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[andrewstewart 0]

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Does this mean that, as far as fall rate goes (vertically, as measured by a ProTrack), the strength of the uppers and their direction relative to the direction you are tracking, is irrelevant?

Vertically, you have to contend with gravity of this big, fat chunk of dirt. If there was a wind blowing you, or some sort of vortex sucking you, upwards with more force than gravity (ie, wind tunnel), then yes, your fall rate would be affected. However, this really doesn't occur naturally while skydiving.

Horizontally, the wind has no other force against it... there's no gravity to fight. So when these particles in the air push you at any speed, your body has no resistance.

This is why you can push your buddy on a jump and send them across the sky horizontally, but if you try to push them up, they'll barely budge (asuming their body position stays the same).

I'm still not clear on this, sorry ;-\

Take two people with exact body types, tracking positions etc (i.e. all factors are equal) but have one track into the uppers and one track "away from" the uppers, which are at some high value.

If they both pull at the same altitude, you're saying that both will end up pulling at the same time? i.e. the duration of their flight is not affected by their orientation w.r.t the winds aloft?

That seems counter intuitive to me because the person with the uppers "behind them" will be able to go faster and hence create more "lift" and stay in the air longer. (I know that lift is the wrong term here, but hey).

Thanks,

- Andrew

[billvon 3,009]

>If they both pull at the same altitude, you're saying that both wil
>l end up pulling at the same time? i.e. the duration of their flight is
> not affected by their orientation w.r.t the winds aloft?

Correct.

>That seems counter intuitive to me because the person with the
> uppers "behind them" will be able to go faster and hence create
> more "lift" and stay in the air longer. (I know that lift is the wrong
> term here, but hey).

From the perspective of their wings, they both see exactly the same airspeed. Happens with airplanes too. Their _groundspeeds_ can be very different, but their wings care only about relative wind.

[andrewstewart 0]

Thanks, I understand now :-)

[ManBird 0]

Yeah. What billvon said.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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