stevesuch 0 #1 October 3, 2003 Hi, I can't wait to join you guys with the wingsuit flying it looks fantastic!!!! Although living in the UK, jump numbers is a bit of a problem(you need over 500!). Anyway, thats another story altogether. My only wingsuit experience is watching vids (which are amazing!), so I'm probably right off track with this, but whenever I see a wingsuit flocking dive the rabbit is flying on his back. Now these wingsuits are designed to create lift using the shape of a wing, right? so if someone is flying on their back doesn't the reverse happen? i.e rabbit drops a lot more so the flockers have to retract their wings to increase their fall rate to catch them? It just seems a bit of a shame to not be using the suits to their max on wicked fun big ways! So has anyone tried modifying a suit or are birdman going to develop suits for backflying so you guys can get the most out of it in these situations?(the same suit just backwards). I suppose you'd only need one suit per DZ and I would have thought most regulars would be willing to chip in a bit for it?Just a thought. Hope to be joining you in 100 jumps time!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sirob 0 #2 October 3, 2003 So far I have seen only one WS for back flying and it was Pierre Desmet suit. It was modified Crossbow type suit with vents on the both sides of the wings. He used it for excellent videos and photos of WS flocks.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #3 October 3, 2003 Hi Steve, First off the BPA's suggested requirements for wingsuit jumping is 500 jumps or 250 in the last 18 months so you might find that you're ok. We did some 15 ways at the wingsuit festival at Weston a few weekends ago, chasing Fordy who was on his back. Yes, the fallrate was quite quick, around 70mph. Interestinly enough he mentioned asking Birdman about building a special backflying suit but I think it was too much work for them to be worthwhile. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #4 October 3, 2003 what the hell is a flying rabbit? and I came up with an idea for vents on both side of the wing with air locks so when you flip over it locks the top vent and opens the bottom.. talked to robert from birdman about it and his was response "oh yeah we already tried that, didn't work too well - jari has the suit" :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
julesUK 0 #5 October 3, 2003 Quotewhat the hell is a flying rabbit? the leader in a tracking dive or wingsuit flight is called the rabbit over this side of the pond - presumably as a legacy of hunting the little critters (and others) on horseback etc.....lets not start that debate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 October 3, 2003 Actually... I think Vectorboy has the suit now. Its got vents on the backside that allowed for backtracking. I noticed in following him the wings were no more pressureized then a nonvented suit.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #7 October 3, 2003 QuoteActually... I think Vectorboy has the suit now. Its got vents on the backside that allowed for backtracking. I noticed in following him the wings were no more pressureized then a nonvented suit. Hence the "didn't work" conclusion came about :) coolness Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #8 October 3, 2003 I think back flying has more to do with having a nice solid and stable arch than vents on both sides of the wing. And the stamina to hold your body that way where it is not accustomed to normally. It is tiring just to hold the arms maxed out for regular flying for long periods and many flights unless you build up those muscles and keep them maintained. Back flying that I have done on my classic 2 and I have seen others do on GTIs tends to make the suit pitch up and down. The skyflyer 3 seems to be easier to fly inverted ,at least for me, as a more stable if not efficient platform. And it is hard physically in a skyflyer because of the wing surface area. Unless you get your arms out and behind you with your elbows rolled and over extended you wont present the same leading edge and wing shape that you can easily right side up. Its the same as flying in a normal belly to earth position and not holding the wings out. You spill air and the wings don't inflate to their max. Great force is required to hold your feet down to keep from relaxing and spilling air all around you. Guys that are better at max flat back tracking will excel at back flying their suits once they build up their arms and legs. Think bird-man specific exercises: reverse flys upside down pushups or maybe something in the pool to work on those muscle groups. Then again you can just do a whole bunch of jumps on your back. As far as the suit goes its the only skyflyer experience I have. Jari explained that it was one of many prototype suits before the 3 was finalized. They tried the vents and weren't happy with all of the extra assembly work in return for its performance when inverted. He said its a good suit and put many jumps on it as can be seen when examined, but the production 3s are a better product. I see back flying and rolling in and out positions on a 4-way formation in a precision fashion as part of the many future possibilities of wing suit flight. Smooth barrel rolling and back flying will be a big part of this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TB99 0 #9 October 3, 2003 I did a lot of backflying at Ballunar ... after we'd pass the canopies, I'd roll immediately to my back to geek them while I saw them cheering. I actually had a really good glide ratio on my back (I think Kevin can attest to that). I found myself actually almost sitting up! It was a very weird position I never thought would be good, but it worked really well!! It is so hard to explain ... I don't think I even can, but maybe one day I'll get video of it ... Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #10 October 3, 2003 The trick to backflying in a wingsuit is to have exactly the same max flight position as you do on your belly, but "arch" towards the sky just a slight bit. There is a tendency to get your arms and/or legs out in front of you while on your back. If you are wobbling, you probably have your arms out in front of you too much. If you are really dropping fast (ie, it gets really loud) but moving backwards, then your legs are probably out too far in front of you. If you're going nowhere fast, then you probably have everything out in front of you. Try not too look at your feet too much, as it will usually cause you to d-arch, and there for sink, and your arms will probably get in front of you and make you potato chip. It doesn't take too much practice. Maybe just a couple jumps to nail it. It's a little weird to fight the air in the opposite direction of what you're used to. On the S3 you should be in the low to mid 60s. In the GTi 70 is a good backtracking fall rate. I got down to 58 on my back on the S3 once. There's nothing quite like feeling the "sweet spot" while looking up at the clear blue sky."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TB99 0 #11 October 3, 2003 Honestly, I was doing really well and not doing anything you just said ... like I said, it was weird, but cool, yet hard to describe Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #12 October 4, 2003 Back flying is hard to describe since many people fly on their backs in a different manner than the next guy. The overall key to it is the dearch that allows you to acheive the desired end state. If your trying to film someone who is flying above you then you need as much lift as possible while maintaining them in camera view. Regardless of the objective, you will fall faster vertically on your back thena on your stomach no matter how much you max it oout. Those flying above you on their stomachs will have to fly somewhat dirty ot make adjustments in their flight to stay with you. Vector boy can attest for that and it can be seen in the pictures I took at WFFC of him back flying during our big way flock. The best way to approach back flying is the same way you approach normal flying only reverse everything. You actually have to arch as hard as you can and push down as much as you can on the legs especially and keep the wings taught. Otherwise you sink out pretty quick. Once you get good at flipping over into a stable back flying position from your stomach you will eventually find it easier to do the flip from a normal exit by doing a front loop onto your back and immediately back fly with little to no altitude loss. Maintaining directional awareness is part of your wingman's responsibility as he should point you in the direction you need to move to in order to fly back to the DZ. Making adjustments to your heading is acheived much in the same way as you already do it only it's a bit more twitchy as you make your flat turns."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
