sducoach 0 #1 October 10, 2003 Hey all you BMI's. How about a PM with your rec's on drill dive flows for a new solo flyer. I'm flying by my self (no others on DZ) and would like solid drill dives to work on. Thanks and Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pd190 0 #2 October 10, 2003 Count me in on this.....I'm also the only one at my DZ flying......so far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #3 October 10, 2003 J.E., did you mean BM-I drills, or simply solo BirdMan dives you can do. If the Instructor in you is coming out, then I can tell you that drills are best conducted with another flyer. Think exactly like you would on an AFF cat E solo exit dive. We launch alongside our students, evaluate their body position and then give corrective hand signals and demonstrate what we want them to do. One of the most critical instructor skills is being able to close the gap very quicky, but safely, after a student zoo's an exit. Often times, people just learning will be flying off to another county without even realizing it. If you can't catch them very quicky and "herd" them back to the dropzone then you can't effectively help them with anything else. On tight dropzones with few outs this is incredibly important. There are flight tips in the BM Instructor checklist listed on their website. If you are just talking about drill dives to make you a better wingsuit pilot, then I would urge you to not get locked into one mode of flight. Once you have the basic body position down, then it's time to throw in some barrel rolls, front rolls, etc. Recovery from instability is something that you must be familiar with. The sooner you are not afraid of your suit, the sooner you can really wear out the sky in it. Peace, Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #4 October 13, 2003 >If you can't catch them very quicky and "herd" them back to the >dropzone then you can't effectively help them with anything else. Agree that you can't herd them if you're not near them, but even when a BMI tries to "herd" them it may not work. (Case in point - Lisa's tour of the jump runs at Rantoul.) Is a nearby instructor especially helpful for a jumper's first flight? They can definitely give good feedback on exit, body position, waveoff and pull after the flight, but can't help in an AFF sense (i.e. dock on an unstable wingsuit, stabilize them and pull for them.) Might someone in formation be more of a distraction than an aid on their first flight? Maybe this falls under a larger question - what do BMI's consider the goals of the first flight, or the first few flights? Is the ability to fly relative any consideration at that point, or is it just a stable exit, reasonable pattern, good waveoff and stable pull? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #5 October 14, 2003 QuoteIs a nearby instructor especially helpful for a jumper's first flight? They can definitely give good feedback on exit, body position, waveoff and pull after the flight, but can't help in an AFF sense (i.e. dock on an unstable wingsuit, stabilize them and pull for them.) Might someone in formation be more of a distraction than an aid on their first flight? All very true and what I have found to be the most beneficial is the feedback that can be given to a First flight student. More often than not, most FF are caught up in the moment.Especially if they are flying well, and just like a AFF student ,don't see the hand signals in front of their face. Granted there are exceptions and those who are heads up benefit the most from the in air corrections than those who fail to "see" their instructor. Often times it seems that close proximity to FF students can be a bit of a distractor for them(if they actually "see" you). I have found that flying relative but slightly above and to the right of FF students allows me to be close enough to swoop to the student if they need help but also out of the way in the event of erratic movement or just distraction factor. It is also easier to see all wings and overall body position from slightly above than side by side. Quotewhat do BMI's consider the goals of the first flight, or the first few flights? Like AFF, we are looking for the ability to follow directions in a stressful environment. This starts from boarding the aircraft through landing safely. Most important is the demonstrated ability of the student to exit stable, assume a proper flight plan, fly as correctly as they can, take corrections in air and practice pulls prior to actual pull altitude. I follow my students all the way down to their pull and watch their deployment. More often than not, where people encounter problems is during the pull. This can be a result of poor body position, stability on pull , rushed pull etc.. If you can provide feedback that eliminates opening problems then the rest will come to them after more flights. Flying relative to others or in formation is something that can come later as the student learns the nuances of the suit. There are cases where I have gotten out with a student and they ruled right out of the door and were flying relative and docking on their first flight. Like a canopy, a suit will fly as well as the person piloting it. The biggest problem seen,even with people who have several BM jumps, is the failure to self navigate once in the air. Chuck and I have found ourselves many times in a flock where one bird is flying off into the sunset while the rest are headed to the DZ. The best you can hope for is to catch them quickly and herd them in, otherwise they are on thier own."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #6 October 14, 2003 I've wondered the same thing myself. While I do what I can to stay relative and give hand signals that the new bird is probably too overwhelmed to even understand, I feel that the real role of a wingsuit instructor is more informational than physical. It's not like you are taking someone up on their first skydive. Essentially, you don't fly a wingsuit until you have the ability to do so. It's a major bonus for the student to get feedback in flight and I like to make sure I'm there to give it, but it's probably not actually necessary. I do, however, strongly believe that the instructor, if nothing else, should at least observe the flight from exit to post pull (check if they had line twists, etc). I feel that most of my role when giving wingsuit instruction (the only type of instruction I give) is education, and I've even had a few qualified people that I briefed and they went and did the flight solo (back when I only had one suit). On anyone's first few flights, I really have just one concern about what they do in the air... practice pulls. I'm far more concerned with their education than the quality of their flight (for the first few jumps, anyway). And there is, to a degree, the distortion of the student's body position when they're geeking you. You fly right next to them and they look at you, which usually means that they end up flying towards you, as they aren't keeping their head on a swivel. I haven't been nailed yet, and it's pretty easy to not be, but it's just some evidence that, yes, you can be a distraction. I've found that the student does best when I get directly behind and to the side of them. They usually don't see me and end up flying better. If they aren't doing practice pulls or following the flight plan, I can just move forwards, signal to them, and then back up a little bit. Even then, though... you do get the occassional space case. Oh, well. Enough of this nonsensical rambling."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #7 October 14, 2003 Hey we posted at the same time, and it looks like our responses are pretty similar. That's good, as the wingsuit instructor role seems to be a controversial topic with some."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdWoman 0 #8 October 14, 2003 I'll add in my 2-cents here as well. I completely agree with what my fellow BM-I's have said. I know what it's like trying to figure out what to do after your first couple of flights because I had to go through the same thing. The most important thing is to get as much knowledge about the suit as possible. This can be obtained by going out and playing a little game with yourself: what happens if I do this with one arm wing? What happens if I do this at the same time as that? so on and so forth. It is kindof like when you first started jumping off AFF and you experimented with moving your body in different ways and seeing what happens. However, when attempting more advanced maneuvers (i.e. barrel rolls) you should ask the best way to do it. There are a lot of flyers out there that think they know the best way to do something but they don't...I know from experience. If you're the only one flying at your DZ, make a post here and I'm sure you'll get some answers. Hope this helps! Stacey BM-I"I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcoller 0 #9 October 14, 2003 Stacey, Ok. I will take you up on that offer... I just got my GTI a couple of weeks ago and have 5 jumps on it. Today I got asked how steep I could dive in the suit and how fast I would go. Can I go into a steep dive and pull it up into a climb? Is that going to be tough on the suit and/or me? How steep (fast) is too steep (fast)? Another question. I can track on my back but haven't been able to backfly in the WS. Any pointers? Third. I had a 99 second jump today, even with pulling at 5K. The truck was out looking for me when I landed at the DZ. One of the Tandem Instructors didn't believe me when I told them where I got out. Very cool. John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdWoman 0 #10 October 14, 2003 Doing steep dives are very possible and very easy. If you collapse your arm wings by bringing them down to the side and keep your legwing fully inflated, it will cause you to go into a dive with a very fast and steep angle of attack. I have hit 180mph doing this getting down to a student. If you have ever flown head-down and know what it's like to relax in a dive, it will help immensly. When you come out of it by inflating your arm wings, you will feel a very rapid deceleration. Whether this is hard on the suit or not remains to be seen, and whether you actually climb is another point to tackle. You would have to have the software for the ProTrack to determine if there is any positive lift created. Just be careful and keep an eye out for canopies in the air as you will be burning up altitude rather fast. Backflying in the WS can be tricky. A lot of people have a hard time getting onto their back, which can best be achieved by doing a half roll. It takes some practice to get the technique down, but the easiest way I've found is to twist at the waist and look where you want to go. This goes with the idea that "where your head goes, your body will follow". Collapsing an arm wing to do a roll is usually unstable and will probably cause you to loose some altitude. Once on your back, you really have to push down on the legwing because there is a lot of material that the air is pushing against. I have found this to take some concentration and strength, much like regular back-tracking. Play around with it and don't get frustrated...it will come with time. Right on with your 99s jump. I scare our pilots all the time by talking with them up for a good 15 seconds after the tandems get out. The first few times I did that everybody on the ground got worried because they didn't see me open for quite some time...it's great, isn't it? If there is anything else we can do to help, feel free to ask. Long soars- Stacey BM-I"I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #11 October 15, 2003 Chuck, No the "I" in me is NOT coming out in the birdman. In fact I should send you the video the guys took of me on the first jump in the aircraft. "Hey J.E. were you a little nervous?" they asked. "NO I said, I was scared to death!". They had lots of fun teasing the "Old Man". Thanks Chuck for your help. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #12 October 15, 2003 Sorry Chuck, Lou, Birdman. I just found out there is a "BirdWoman"!!!! You know who I'll be talking to.................. Blues, J.E. PS, Birdwoman, have DJan send me an e-mail. Trying to get in touch with her. Thank you. J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdWoman 0 #13 October 15, 2003 J.E.- You just found out that there's a BirdWoman?? I guess I should post more often I will send DJan an email and have her get in touch with you. Long Soars- Stacey BM-I"I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #14 October 15, 2003 See Guys!!!! Isn't she Great!!!!! Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #15 October 16, 2003 QuoteI just found out there is a "BirdWoman Ahaaa! And there are some disguised as pixies as well BB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #16 October 16, 2003 QuoteAnd there are some disguised as pixies as well There's even one disguised as a bytch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #17 October 16, 2003 Okay Ladies. That's too much for me. I've got to call my wife now........................ Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdWoman 0 #18 October 17, 2003 Damn, you think I'm great and you don't really know me that well...sweet!"I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #19 October 17, 2003 Stacey, If D.Jan likes ya...................... so do I. Besides, you are closer to Missouri than Chuck or Lou and I know you are much better looking than either one of them! Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #20 October 17, 2003 She might be better looking but there are flockers all over the Midwest I might be pursuaded in the spring to make some trips all around the Midwest to flock with people. I know of at least one person (DiverDriver) that I'm sure would love to flock again in the Chicago area... I'm thinking a Flocking Gathering might be in order for the spring Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdWoman 0 #21 October 17, 2003 Aww, gee thanks. And just how do you know that I'm better looking than Chuck and Lou? "I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdWoman 0 #22 October 17, 2003 Does Colorado really count as the "midwest"? I hope not. When I think of the midwest I think of a lot of corn and really flat land...no place to go snowboarding. This might start of your trip you're talking about...I know for a fact that there are going to be a ton of us birds down at Eloy for the holiday boogie. It's definately not the midwest, but there will be a lot of flockers that are from around those parts. Nonetheless, it will be a great time with great flocks!"I don't know where it is that I'm going, but wherever it is there I'll be!" --quoted by me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #23 October 17, 2003 I've seen Chuck and Lou.................. nuff said???? Blues, J.E>James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #24 October 17, 2003 Diverdriver landed in my town last night. I bought that guy diner last night and offered him gear next time in town. He better flock with me, no, wait a minute, I don't like the sound of "Did you see J.E. flocking with Chris?" Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
