obi 0 #1 October 20, 2003 I just read the thread on how to install the shrivel-tube for the base-pc-pouch. Obviously none of the posters have understood the principles of a shrivel-flap/-tube. As the name says, it is designed to shrivel when pulled in a certain direction, more precise when pulled parallel to itself and therefore parallel to the velcro. You need a lot of force to peel off a velcro when you pull it parallel to itself while you need only little force when you pull it at a 90° angle. Shrivel-flaps were invented for velcro-closed base-rigs to ensure a consistent force needed to open the container, even when deploying in a head-down position. When you deploy out of full flight in your wingsuit, the pull of the bridle will be somewhat parallel to the velcro on the pouch, thereby increasing the force needed to pull it off if the bridle had the velcro sewn onto it. That's why you use the shrivel-tube. But it will only work if you stitch it ONLY to the top. If you stitch it to the bottom or both ends it will not shrivel. You could just as well sew some velcro on the bridle. It will finally work, but the force needed will vary with the pull-angle and condition of the velcro and you will loose valuable altitude. When I look at the thread "pull altitudes" and think about where you guys are pulling, this might not be so important when skydiving, but in base this will ruin your day. Another thing about the pouch: I always use the base-pouch when I fly with my S3, even out of a plane, because I want to have 1 location for my pc. It has happened to me once that the pc came out while backflying. Be aware of the fact that this not a spandex pouch and check that the pc is well in the pouch before exit. I have to admit that I might not have checked well on this particular jump, but since then I check very well and have noticed that the pc tends to come out by itself. And yes, I do make a very nice pc-pack-job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #2 October 20, 2003 well i thought i made both points clear in my posting but evidentally not. :) You are correct with both of your statements. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #3 October 20, 2003 QuoteBe aware of the fact that this not a spandex pouch and check that the pc is well in the pouch before exit. Does anyone know why the pouch is not spandex? It seems like it would be safer to use spandex. And if you just put a spandex pouch inside the current pouch, you'd avoid the aerodynamic issues. Yet another question I forgot to ask this weekend. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #4 October 20, 2003 QuoteQuoteBe aware of the fact that this not a spandex pouch and check that the pc is well in the pouch before exit. Does anyone know why the pouch is not spandex? It seems like it would be safer to use spandex. And if you just put a spandex pouch inside the current pouch, you'd avoid the aerodynamic issues. Yet another question I forgot to ask this weekend. I think it's hard to find an all silver spandex material ;) The mouth of the pouch is elastic, not sure why the entire pocket isn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #5 October 20, 2003 I wish it was spandex. I wouldn't have had that impossipull otherwise (which would have been fatal on a BASE jump). My theory is that it might have something to do with shrivel flap mounting, but that really shouldn't be too much of an issue. That's a great idea, Tom. Maybe even a wider pouch with a spandex pouch inside... that'd be the best. Spandex just might make my F1-11 PC come out with a little less effort."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #6 October 20, 2003 BTW, thanks for the tip, Obi. I'll have the stitch position on mine changed this weekend. Edited to add: I apologize for the bad advice in my write-up. As current as I'm getting on my reserve, I'm seriously considering getting my rigger's ticket. I'll keep my laptop shut on rigging matters until then. ;)"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obi 0 #7 October 20, 2003 I can only guess, but maybe it's because you can't put the velcro on the spandex. An easy way to avoid this would be placing the velcro beneath the pouch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fergs 0 #8 October 21, 2003 Quote But it will only work if you stitch it ONLY to the top. If you stitch it to the bottom or both ends it will not shrivel. G'day from Oz, Obi, A great post - esoecially to follow up on the guy's Base Pouch Instructions a week or two back - which also were exceptional, with more and more of us already or about to use the Base PC pouch. The more info that is shared around, the better. And the safer!! So now you need to be very specific. The shrivel tube is on the bridle. The bridle has the pilot chute at one end and the deployment bag containing the packed canopy at the other end. When you say "stitch it only to the TOP...", which end are you referring to? The end closest the PC or the end closest the bag / canopy? It seems to me that we all must be aware so 100% of us get it correct. Thanks and Blue Skies, fergbird Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #9 October 21, 2003 the top means the top closest to the pin. See my instructions here with pictures. I'll post video later of how it works. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #10 October 21, 2003 You can always check to see if a shrivel flap works by just attaching it, then pulling it off and seeing if it shrivels.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #11 October 21, 2003 So I guess letting the bridle float free inside the shrivel flap unstitched is a bad Idea? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #12 October 21, 2003 Quote So I guess letting the bridle float free inside the shrivel flap unstitched is a bad Idea? Yes!!! Again, read my article on the base PC pouch. Letting the shrivel flap float free can cause a PC in tow two different ways. The shrivel flap will not shrivel if it isn't stitched. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 3 #13 October 22, 2003 Hi, few info regarding PC pouch. BM has tried all the option in relation of durability and safety especially. On the feeld I was testing 8 !!! diferend model of PC pouch and the one we have on the market has become the one. Spandex is not the option because of durability and safety issues. It is simply to weak. Note about the shrevel: During the testing I have jumped in all possible configuration: Shrevel was attached on the top, on the bottom, on the both sides and was also not attached at all. In all cofiguration shrevel were pulled by Pilot chute without any problem except in configuration were shrevel was attached on both sides for the bridle. Remember that the pull force ( base configuration especially) which 28''or 38'' PC producing is very high. Regards RobiRobert Pecnik robert@phoenix-fly.com www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fordy 0 #14 October 22, 2003 It has happened to me once that the pc came out while backflying. ouch... backflying and having a premature.. tell me you have that on video, i'm cringing at the thoughtFordy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 3 #15 October 23, 2003 guys, I forgot smehow to mention the reason why the spandex will fail in the first place . On the rigs spandex is always against the packed canopy, this way the pandex is thight and it holding the PC firm inside of the poouch. On WS pc pouch the spandex is not against anything. That why the pouch is to loose and it is not keeping the pc in place. RobiRobert Pecnik robert@phoenix-fly.com www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #16 October 23, 2003 I don't know, Robi. It seems that if a person really wanted spandex, they could just sew a pocket on custom, after receiving their suit. This, assuming a reasonably tight fit in the upper legs of the suit. I do see, though, where you would refrain from sewing them on "stock" suits. You never know how good a suit is going to fit a person until they actually put it on. A suit that is too loose in the legs would be a bad choice for a spandex pocket. Cheers, Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #17 October 23, 2003 The problem with retrofiting the current base PC pouches is that if you notice on the suit, the PC pouch is on the same seam as all the "cutaway loops" for the suit.. so you're basically unstitching every cutaway loop on one side in order to get to the inside of the base PC pouch. I was going to put a spandex pouch on the inside of my base PC pouch, but until i figure out a better way of doing it - that's just too much work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #18 October 23, 2003 Too much work? You must not know your way around a sewing machine. Also, there is nothing saying you would have to replace the pocket in the exact location. There are many options one could play with. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #19 October 24, 2003 How about just making sure the elastic of the opening on the standard pouch is tight enough not to let the PC through without it being extracted by hand? Shouldn't that be enough? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obi 0 #20 October 24, 2003 Making it too tight would enhance the chances of an impossipull, like ManBird calls it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
