Geek question on GPS...

[Kris 0]

Okay, the gadget freak in me just came out to visit again.

I'd really like to mount a GPS on my GTi to get more accurate data on my flights. The model I'm looking at right now is the Garmin eTrex Vista.

This one seems to do it all...altimeter data (built-in barometric), computes glide, has the interface cable, even has a jumpmaster accessory. Also, the warm lock-on acquisition time of 15 seconds isn't too shabby either.

Is there anything else I should be looking at in the $250-$350 range? Besides BirdMan I'll be using it for hiking and Geocaching.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Deuce 1]

Loudiamond is doing neato stuff with his Garmin V. I have one of those for hiking and street navigation, and I love it.

When my wife flew down to join me in Eloy I set it to the DZ, BigBen gave it to her at the airport, and she just followed the directions to my team trailer from Phoenix.

Very cool. I'm not familiar with the other models, but the V is very, very useable and coolio.

[TomAiello 26]

I'd PM Kevin922 and ask him. He's been doing some neat stuff with GPS.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[indyz 1]

I like the eTrex series. I've found a dozen-ish geocaches with both the yellow base model and the Legend and they both worked just fine. Mine does not have WAAS, which I now consider to be a must have feature, or the barometric altimeter. For geocaching or ground level navigation the barometric altimeter is not necessary at all but I see how it could be nice for wingsuit flying. The magnetic compass will come in handy when geocaching. If you don't have the magnetic compass, the on screen heading display will stop updating when you stop moving.

If you want Garmin and you want WAAS, an electronic compass, and a barometric altimeter, you have to choose between the Vista and the Geko 301. Both are capable GPSRs, but I find the controls on the Vista to be much easier to use. If you go with the Geko, you save $80, lose the built in memory (not a big deal IMHO), and go from a 4-color grayscale screen to a lower resolution monochrome screen. Tough call. Unless size was an issue, I would cough up the cash and go with the Vista.

Edit to add: The fine folks at the Geocaching forums will talk your ear off about GPSRs and will be able to answer any question you might have.

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

The model I'm looking at right now is the Garmin eTrex Vista.

The etrex Vista is an excellent model to use and is cheaper than the Garmin V, both of which I have used on Birdman flights. I would lean toward the eTrex since it does have some really cool features a skydiver would want that the V doesn't. As for mounting, I have a small neoprene carrier for it and run my chest strap through the belt loop on it. The garmin Mapsource software is adequate for general overlaying of flights that you download from the GPS. The info is also good for the average person(see attachments). Things like speed, heading, etc are easy to read and understand. If you want to get super geeky and wrapped around the numbers and so on you will no doubt find some of the other software out there on the GPS sites and use it.

BTW, the jumpmaster feature on the eTrex is more for military static line /HALO jumping but the HALO mode can be used to determine the HARP and to navigate once under canopy. If you're not familiar with how all of that works it won't get any clearer as your DZ jump run will probably not be anywhere near where the HARP has been calculated to be. If you really want to know this stuff and can deal with the headache it will probably give you,PM me.


The eTrex is also excellent for hiking and geocaching. Everyone on my team at work has one and we use them quite regularly.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[deadwood 0]

I've been using the Vista for about a year now and really like it. The pressure altimeter is nice for checking out the track profile and computing glide ratio and such. I've been using a wrist mount with good success.

I haven't tried all the software but of the ones I have tried the OziExplorer is the best.. and free.

Use it alot on my mountain bike also.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.

Deadwood
Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division

[Kris 0]

Thanks for all of the information everyone. I just placed an order for the eTrex Vista.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Stik 0]

i bought a Vista about a year ago and have yet to use it on a jump. I don't have the Mapsourse software yet but would like to know a couple of things.

First, do I need to have the Mapsource software to download my skydives?

Second, how do you guys mount your GPS so it doesn't come off? I would like to use my GPS for CReW and cross countries. I con't figure out the best way to mount it that would be less prone to snagging for CReW.

Thanks and if anybody has a copy of Mapsource I could evaluate I would be eternally grateful.

Thanks,
Pete

[indyz 1]

Quote

First, do I need to have the Mapsource software to download my skydives?

Nope. You need a serial cable (you probably got one with your GPS) and software than can talk to the GPS. The FlyTrack project is using DeLorme XMap, which according to it's specs can communicate with any NMEA compatible GPS (which includes Garmins).

[Stik 0]

According to what I have heard and read the Garmin ETrex series will only work with Garmin software. If that is not the case then woohoo! I would like to find something that is aimed at 3d tracks and less at street maps.

I have the cable that came with the unit and I use it to update the OS.

Thanks guys,
Pete

[indyz 1]

OK, I managed to confuse myself pretty thoroughly. NMEA is a real-time protocol which will not allow you to download saved tracks from the GPS. You can use something like GPSBabel to download the tracks from a Garmin GPS and convert them to DeLorme XMap format (and many, many other formats as well). You can see what XMap can do in the Projects section at FlyBirdman.

Edit to add: Topo USA 4.0 (which FlyBirdman also seems to use) seems to be able to work directly with Garmin GPSs. There is a demo available. Try before you buy.

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

According to what I have heard and read the Garmin ETrex series will only work with Garmin software

Not entirely true. What can really be the hardest part depends on which GPS cable you have(UPS/or Serial) and what type of ports you have on your computer. The Vista uses a USB cable so it shouldn't be an issue. There are several different programs out there that you can use, if you can't get a copy of Mapsource , try checking out Endless pursuit ,they offer a unique solution to all GPS sport related activities or OZIExplorer. You can download it for trial then buy it if you like. It has a similar GUI as Mapsource and has a 3D capability. It really is preference as most GPSs pretty much all do the same thing depending on the model. I have used GPSs from every manufacturer to include military versions like the original trimble pack back in the day that was as big as a plate and had an LCD the size of a calculator. The Vista is an excellent choice as it does it all.

As for mounting, I use one of the small neoprene cases with a built on belt loop that you can buy just about any where. I attach it to my chest strap for the flight. I have used the Garmin V with external antenna mounted in various locations as well as mounting the unit on top of my Rawa helmet. By far the easiest method is the chest mount as you can hand it to the pilot and he can place it on the dash so that you get constant reception. when it's time to fly just put it back in the case and exit. No need to hack up your suit or run feet of external antenna wire under the suit. Been there, done that, save yourself the hassle. I have also used the altimeter pillows and large wedges as a mounting platform attached to the chest strap. Save yourself some more time. It allows you to look down at the readout but when your looking down at a LCD screen you aren't flying very efficient so it's a trade off. Besides, thats why you have the software to tell you afterwards what you were doing at a specific part of the dive. IMO, being able to look at the LCD screen is pointless since you can't get all of the info you need let alone remember it all throughout the whole flight.

Now, I have talked with CRW guys and they have had good success with it on a wedge chest mount since they can easily see it and they don't have to worry about body position.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

I have an e-trex vista. I bought it to track my tracking, and birdman jumps after I get my suit this spring.

There is free software out there to download your data, if anyone needs to know the stuff I use, PM me. It works great.

BUT the GPS needs a clear shot to the sky. (I have a pocket on the back of my arm) you cannot put it on your belly, and it needs to be in the window of the plane on the way up. If not it will take to long to acquire the satellites after you go out the door.

I even wrote some scripts and macros to take the data, map it in all 3 dimensions and give all the opening/freefall times that the Audibles give. And then could import it into a 3d modeler program to create a 3-D animation of the flight over my home the DZ.

Its all cool, the software is a bit incomplete--I got bored with it. And, I've had a difficult time finding a way to accurately convert degrees to feet (Since it changes as you go north/south)

Plus the unit does not handle rapid directional changes well. Barrel rolls, flips and soforth tend to throw off the mapping for a few seconds, those outliers need to be deleted off of the data.

edited to add: The e-trex vista, from what I have found is not compatible with external antennas

[cobaltdan 0]

if you are going to be taking gps measurements i highly suggest the following accessory:

http://www.gpsonsale.com/handheldaccessories/products/Vortech.htm

it is a reradiator. using gaffers tape you mount the patch antennae on the roof of the airplane, run the wire into the plane, covering the wire with gaffers. power the unit with a small 12v rechargable battery from digikey or radioshack. if you are within about 2 meters of the reradiator in the plane your gos will receive a signal.

when you exit the plane you will still have a lock and you wont loose a bunch of time& data waiting to re-establish.

we use these on all our test jumps involving gps and they are just great !

sincerely,

dan preston
atair aerodynamics
www.extremefly.com

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[krkeenan 0]

Lou,

With the GPS V, once the sats are acquired at the windshield location, and you leave the plane with the unit on your chest, does it have any problem with your body blocking the signal ? That's what I thought a helmet-mounted antenna would be good for. But if you don'y need it, so much the better.

Kevin

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

you leave the plane with the unit on your chest, does it have any problem with your body blocking the signal ?

It's not 100% but I have had pretty good success with getting signal with the unit on my chest from exit all the way to the ground. On occasion I will lose signal from the dash to the back of the A/C and not have exit data but it quickly locks on and I have no issues from there on.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[deadwood 0]

Here is what I did with a Garmin Belt mount, an 0-ring, some hand tacking cord and a Consew 206.

I usually jump a 182. Sit in the back, and at about 7K (on a 10K jump), turn it on and just hold it up to the rear window. After everyone leaves, wait a while, move to the door and jump. Keeps a signal all the way down.

It has also worked in Otters and Skyvans by just holding it near a window on the climb.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.

Deadwood
Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division