New Bird has some questions

[Jiggs 0]

Hey all,

I did my first couple of birdman jumps on the weekend - so much fun that I am thinking of getting into it, the problem is that there are so few people that do it over here in Australia. Anyway I did 3 jumps on a Classic2 and I am hooked. I am thinking about getting one but it might mean that I don't get a new canopy anytime soon

Anyway what I was wondering was what sort of step up is the Skyflyer from the Classic2? What about the Skyflyer 3? I had no control problems during the flights; did a few barrell rolls, forward flips, etc with no problems but I am wondering what sort of step up these wings would be? (Other than Classic all I could use would be a Skyflyer) Would I be better served trying to get a GTI? Or would it be an idea to plead and scam a bunch of jumps on a classic and then go for the Skyflyer? Or would this be biting of too much? I am flying my trusty Sabre at around 1.2 so the openings are fine.

Also what is the difference between TAS & SAS? Having borrowed a pro-track I for these jumps I am interested to know how they actually work?

Cheers!

"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain."

"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus

[billvon 2,991]

>Anyway what I was wondering was what sort of step up is the Skyflyer
> from the Classic2? What about the Skyflyer 3?

The GTI. It will give you 90% of the performance of the Skyflyer 3 without the issues of the larger wing (the wing in the way of your pilot chute, the tabs to hang onto) and will be an easier transition from the Classic. You'll have no problems with flocking in a GTI; it's an easier suit to learn to fly relative with someone.

If you really want the SF3, then I'd suggest putting 30 jumps or so on a Classic (or better yet a GTI) then transitioning. Your learning curve will be steeper and it will take longer before you can fly relative to people.

[Jasmin 0]

Jimmy Freeman and I will be in Vic this coming weekend. He is a BMi and I have a few "borrowed" suits, let me know if you'd like to talk or come play.

Am also organising a Bird-Man boogie later this year...Send me an e-m if you'd like to be on the info list.

Congrats on your jumps mate!!!

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[kevin922 0]

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>Anyway what I was wondering was what sort of step up is the Skyflyer
> from the Classic2? What about the Skyflyer 3?

The GTI. It will give you 90% of the performance of the Skyflyer 3 without the issues of the larger wing (the wing in the way of your pilot chute, the tabs to hang onto) and will be an easier transition from the Classic.

Bill,

Since I know you aren't one to just pull shit out of the air - was curious your thought process on coming up with "90%" for the gti's performance vs the s3...

Kevin

[namdrib 0]

I'm with Kevin, not sure if I would say 90%. Having flown the GTi and the Skyflyer several times and the S-3 a few times, I would probably say that the GTi is about 40% of the performance of the S-3. Would you agree with me, Kevin?

Unknowing attempting to take out all 4 wheeled vehicles remotely close to the landing area!

[namdrib 0]

Quote

Also what is the difference between TAS & SAS? Having borrowed a pro-track I for these jumps I am interested to know how they actually work?

Cheers!

I would also like to hear the answer to that question, as well. I have one of the first Pro Tracks made and it doesn't have the "Slo" mode. I have the Surf mode, is that comparable? Or is there something else that I should set that on???

Unknowing attempting to take out all 4 wheeled vehicles remotely close to the landing area!

[billvon 2,991]

>was curious your thought process on coming up with "90%" for the
> gti's performance vs the s3...

I've done a few jumps with people of similar weight and height, with them using GTI's and me using an S3. We can fly together with no problem, and at breakoff, I can _slowly_ pull ahead and above them.

I have noticed that a jumper's skill has far more to do with slowest vertical/fastest horizontal than suit model - I've smoked taller people than me who were using S3's, and Chuck can easily smoke me even when we both have S3's. Body size is the second most important factor. Amy can out-float (but not out-drive) me in her Classic, but then she's 150lbs and 6' tall. I think suit type comes in third.

[namdrib 0]

Upon skipping the whole "Thought Process" on my previous post, I am going to agree with you Billvon!!! I have flown with someone using an S-3 and me in my trusty Skyflyer. Him being 215 lbs me being 170 lbs and I was really able to leave him way down and behind! So yes, suit should be in 3rd place! Sorry for the lack of thought in the previous statement!

Unknowing attempting to take out all 4 wheeled vehicles remotely close to the landing area!

[CancerChris 0]

Hello, My name is Christopher Ware and go by Cancer Chris. I live on the drop zone in Z-Hillls. I do a lot of birdman an would like to see some events count me in let me know what is up and happening.

[VectorBoy 0]

Body flight Skill, even spillover from other skydiving disciplines, body type and currency in wingsuits all play a major role in performance gains in a wingsuit.

Bird-man products have a great deal of performance overlap when flown properly.When not flown correctly it may seem that the smaller suits fall short of what the bigger suits can do, not the case.

Many people think they need a " bigger suit" when they are sucking compared to other flockers. Often times its just bad body position or lack of body awareness. Coaching with some one that can fly alongside and give hand signals or video would benefit the situation and its much cheaper than a new " bigger suit". Don't rely only on a protrac for performance bench marking. Get you and your suit to boogies and flock it will pay off in skills gained.

Being current on what you got is very important. If you only put the suit on once in fifty regular jumps what do expect. Its worse if you have to stop jumping all winter. If you are not putting in the jumps to be current on a wingsuit you are doing yourself a disservice that a bigger suit won't fix.

If you are sucking in a small suit there will be nothing worse than sucking in your big suit and few things more dangerous. If you can't fly a GTI efficiently than you can not deploy in an S3 safely.

There have been several times when we fly with a new person we just meet who has a tubby body and middle of the spectrum suit and due to skills alone gives us quite a surprise and a workout too. That is the person who is ready for a bigger suit.

Sounds alot like the canopy lecture doesn't it?

[ManBird 0]

Amen, brother Glen. A buddy of mine that bought a GTi last year, and really just now started to get into it. He plans to BASE his GTi. He was concerned with the lack of performance, but didn't really want to have to get the S3 because of potential deployment issues (especially in a BASE environment).

After a month or so of jumping together every weekend (sort of fun jumping with a little debrief as opposed to formal coaching) he's now getting all the performance he wanted and then some. His no-wind glide ratio went from 1.1:1 to 1.6:1 in about twenty jumps (1.6:1 is the upper/top end of the glide envelope for a GTi). In also learning to leverage the wind, he's getting over a 2:1 glide ratio (just over 4 miles from 13K). He's flying the thing really damn well these days. The little tweaks recommended on each jump eventually made a huge difference, and he's now very happy with his GTi. If he does get the S3, he'll fly it much better than he would have if he decided to buy it before figuring out his GTi.

Get with an experienced BM-I or coach. People are always amazed to find out all that they've been doing wrong, and the odd things that you have to do to max out a suit. The moral of the story is:

Learn to fly the piss out of what you have before even thinking of moving up.

This also sounds like the canopy lecture, doesn't it?



PS

I wouldn't say the GTi is 90% of the performance of the S3. Maybe in fall rate, but not forward speed. The only real comparison is with yourself. I have about the same number of jumps in the GTi as the S3 (~190 and ~180 respectively). With a GTi, I can get my average within 3 - 5 MPH of my S3 average, but when it comes to forward speed, the S3 is drastically faster. My GTi best forward speed is about 60% - 65% of my best S3 forward speed.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[Jiggs 0]

Yeah playtime sounds like it could be fun! Where? Missed that other dude from Picton at the (Nag) Easter Boogie.

Just another question guys & gals: How important are the birdman mods on containers? I take it that for the lower performance suits that are not necessary?

"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain."

"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus

[ManBird 0]

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Just another question guys & gals: How important are the birdman mods on containers?

A good thread that covers this topic:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=728298;search_string=mods;

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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