Capitalizing income on a non existing market?

[greybeard 0]

McDonalds had to promote and sell the fast food idea to it's customers before they could actualize the business as a profitable entity.

Az Airspeed won some competitions and promoted the hell out of their sport and themselves, then they were able to market a product.

It seems to me that wingsuit flying is still a very, very small niche in average dropzone business. And, begining with the $ cost for so called 'certification', i.e. BMI, the horse may be getting a little ahead of the cart, so to speak.

I think that the availability and enthusiasm of Chuck, Jari, Betsy, et al, is fantastic. I hope it encourages and promotes great numbers for all of us to enjoy.

I also fear that, the weekend jumper sees the $ as a barrier. I just don't see where the new customer base is coming from to justify these early (in the age of ws everyday dz flight) costs.

I do understand how great it is to make a living on a drop zone. I also understand that you must create a market before you can harvest one.

The market is just not there yet. More investment must be made. Sorry to those who are looking for a glory hole, it aint there yet.

[ManBird 0]

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I also fear that, the weekend jumper sees the $ as a barrier.

I agree and disagree. $30 ground school, $20 air-to-air, $10 suit rental, and 2 slots comes out to $100 at most DZs these days. From the perspective of your average skydiver, that's a lot for one jump. If I'm the only BM-I around, I waive the $20 for air-to-air. That takes it down to $80 -- a little more acceptable. After that, it's only $10 per jump to rent the suit. For my longtime friends at home, it's generally just my slot for a first flight.

What I've observed is that it generally takes only one person to take the plunge. One person ponies up $80 - $100 to fulfill their curiosity. When they come down, that's it. They just beam and everyone sees it. There's the market. One curious person provides the confirmation that is needed -- the experience is worth the money -- and it is.

The quality of instruction that comes from a BM-I versus a non-BM-I is very noticeable. I look back to when I took people up before getting my BM-I, and how I take people up now -- worlds apart. Granted, an experienced AFF instructor that already has the educational part dialed in may not teach much differently.

You get consistent and correct information with your BM-I. A first flight student I took up some time ago borrowed a suit from a wingsuit pilot with over 100 flights, and was relaying the experience to me. The owner of the suit had some really bad advice for him. Not every experienced wingsuit pilot is going to give out bad info, but with a BM-I, you have a much better chance of getting the right info.

In other words, "You get what you pay for." The earlier this is understood, the better, I guess.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[The111 1]

The market is there. How many times have you heard someone say they started skydiving just so they could fly a suit? I've heard it said several times and I haven't been jumping that long.

The cost of a first flight is equivalent to a coached FF jump. What do you get if you spend $80 on one coached FF jump? Slightly better FF skills. Most people that pay for one of these pay for many more. What do you get if you spend that same money on a BMI jump? The ability to make 2-3 minute skydives for the rest of your life, and it's a one-time fee. Look how much money you just saved.

The price is right for those who are interested. I don't think lowering it would massively increase the amount of new birds.

The market is there. Most whuffos are more amazed by wingsuit flight footage than normal freefall video (well ok, that could have something to do with the fact that the footage I show them is usually Loic on the mountain ). Most skydivers think it's awesome too - if they don't do it it's because:
a) they're tied up in another discipline
b) they're uncomfortable with the perceived risks / constrained arms
c) they don't have the money for a suit, which is different than what you're talking about

I've heard so many sub-200 jump skydivers going on and on about how they can't wait to get 200 jumps and do BM, but I've never heard any complaining about how much it's going to cost.

If one doesn't like the price for instruction, he can always log 500 jumps and do it on his own, or go up with a kind friend like I did.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[MarkM 0]

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I've heard so many sub-200 jump skydivers going on and on about how they can't wait to get 200 jumps and do BM, but I've never heard any complaining about how much it's going to cost.

Count me as one of them. I think the hardest marketing part of wingsuits is the skill barrier to entry. You see tons of people doing tandems, only a small fraction of those go on to be students, maybe only half of those graduate, only a few of those that graduate will go on to become regular skydivers.

Of those that go on they'll have to wait on average a year or more before they can even try birdman. A lot of people probably drop the sport before reaching 200 skydives.

The BM training costs are low considering what you'll spend to get there. By the time you can even start BM you'll have spent 1200 on AFF, 4k on jump tickets and 3-5k on gear. Never mind any wind tunnel or RW/FF coaching you may have also spent money on.

[greybeard 0]

Good points and good positive responses, all above.

Perhaps I'm just a little frustrated with being the only regular ws fun jumper at my dz. There is some terrific experience and skill around, but those folk are otherwise occupied with other responsibilities. The rare occasion I've had to jump other than solo in the past twelve months, have been with visiting experienced ws. My home dz is not so small that you couldn't expect to find five or ten ws jumpers on any given weekend. But, they are just not there.

Is it the economy, I wonder. Many regular rw and ff fun jumpers say they would love to try ws. In Perris memorial weekend, I jumped with at least six first timers, and saw six or eight more experiment with first or second, or third ws jumps. No charge for anything. Now that's "spreading the love", and that's marketing.

I got started because, after asking around, I was offered the unlimited use of a suit, anytime. "Just help yourself, and have fun"! And with Betsy's enthusiasm and guidance, encouragement and instruction from the local experienced staff, I got hooked on ' the nylon crack'. (Thanks all you devious dealers of depravity.)

I'm not so sure I would spend $ today to make a first flight. I talk to lots of weekend fun jumpers that might take the plunge were it not for the $.

I'm damn sure now that $ are worth spending for advanced instruction such as being offered in Eloy in October.

This all seems to me a tough situation, and I do not have any answers to the many questions.

I do think that the primary force in place may be the dz itself, hoping to keep safety the first focus. This is good!

HELP I NEED SOMEBODY

ANYBODY

TO FLOCK WITH.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Greybird(LOL)
I thank you for your positive comments! It seems that you've not been here when we've been loaded with birdies shaking their tail feathers. Now that summerr is upon us many have flown the nest...no worries..October will find us with a huge flock

[SCARYPERRY 0]

Share the love, not worry about politics!! If I expect to get rich sharing my love of flight I have lost focas. In Russia they where lined up, wanting instruction.When they found out the instruction was free, the suit rental was free. They went bonkers!!Granted that market was untapped,most had only read of wingsuit,seen video,and dreamed. The smiles on the faces,the excitment.was enough. There was protest over contest winner. Some bitched that becouse I was there,birdman instucter, that flying against me was unfair. Ego's can run high in compitition,.I went at my own expense, used my own demo suits,and asked for nothing. If any of you could relize how many doors have opened, both $ wise and oppertunity,you would quit bitchen,and leave the prices as they are.If you want to do a tandem, you find the money.If you want professional teaching, they will find a way to pay. But please remember ,if someone shared the love with you, keep the spirit. Scary Perry

Only he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived

[bbarnhouse 0]

Many have shared their knowledge, time and energy and continue to do so. Such as manning the BirdMan booths at Rantoul, Eloy Holiday and many others, these folks give of their time and talents.
Remember too that sponsored schools have a responsibility to their sponsors, the DZ's in which they operate and staff members.
As wingsuit flying is still in its infancy, we can all expect to see the bar raised.
All deciplines have evolved and each has competent instructors that can now eek a living where they may not have been able to before.
Baby steps...until the stairs can be climbed.