Spinoff thread: pros and cons of soft links (main or reserve)

[The111 1]

I didn't want to post this in the other thread about brake line stowage because it is a more general question, but somewhat related.

So I have a new rig on order and went with Slinks for both main and reserve. Honestly, I don't know what the benefit of a Slink is. I'll be perfectly honest and admit they looked cool and were advertised all over PD's webpage, and I'd noticed them on some of the "newer" looking rentals I jumped, so I assumed they must be the next big thing.

What exactly do they provide that a hard link doesn't? I think I heard that they are more "reusable"... but I don't plan on swapping canopies often. If I do get them on my main I will certainly take great care in making sure they set right and I always stow my brakelines properly (RWS makes that easy).

Bigger question... what is more common ("better"... a horrible word to use on subjective topics) for a reserve? It seems to me if I never see my reserve until its first use, it will be hard to guarantee the Slinks are set properly. Or to make sure my brakelines are stowed right, though I would obviously have to trust that to my rigger like everything else. Is there a benefit to getting "regular" links with a reserve? Honestly I can't even think of what regular (what is regular?) links look like since the rental I've been using for a while has Slinks.

Any opinions are welcome... I hope this isn't old material... couldn't find much info on this topic. Thanks.

EDIT: P.S. I have no desire to pull my slider down past the toggles... I jumped a demo once with Slinks and no SRC's and the slider kept coming down to the unstowed toggle ends and basically screwing up my flight. Kinda annoying/scary.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Samurai136 0]

I don't know what the web link is but soft links are stronger than metal rapide links.

I've also seen photos of rapide links that have come unscrewed and then bent "open" nearly releasing the lines.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Hooknswoop 19]

Slinks Pro's:

Stronger than Rapide links
They don't require lock-tight,torque stripe, or slider bumpers.
Easier to get slider down past links. (Or bumpers can be installed if the jumper does not want the slider to come down)
Lower bulk.
Zero maintenance.
Less likely to fail at low altitude.
Less likely to fail.
Easier to install and remove, with no tools needed.
They come with installation instructions.
They won't damage the slider grommets which then damage the lines.

Slinks Con's:

They have been intalled incorrectly. (But even then they held.)

Derek

[AndyMan 7]

The biggest advantage of s-links is that they're stronger then the traditional metal "french" links. There have been cases of french links breaking from a hard opening, but the odds of this happening with s-links are very remote.

Secondly, people jumping higher performance mains like s-links because they facilitate pulling the slider down onto the risers. This allows the main to spread out a bit, improving performance.

Thirdly, it's easier to visually inspect that they are set properly, then french links are. French links can only be verified by touching the link to feel if the barrel is screwed on tight, while a s-link can be visually inspected.

Fourthly, they are smaller then french-links, and don't cause bulges in your container.

Fifth: no slider bumpers required!

While you may be concerned about the reserve s-link not being set properly, what you're really concerned about is whether you trust your rigger or not. There are just as many pitfalls with french-links then there are with s-links. Indeed, there are FAR more pitfalls elsewhere in your gear. Do you trust your rigger?

The down-side to s-links:

a: if they break, they break without warning. French links will pry open but still work, while s-links will just break.

b: you must either pull down the slider or install blocks so that the slider CAN'T come down over your brakes. This was the cause of a recent fatalitiy.

c: I haven't heard of reports of snagged break lines with french-links.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Wags 0]

Here's the link Ken, althow It sounds like The111 hasa been looking at the PD site already.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/slink.asp

Blue Skies,
Wags

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

a: if they break, they break without warning. French links will pry open but still work, while s-links will just break.

I consider that a pro. Since if they're going to break, it will most likely be on opening, then it's reserve time. With rapides, they could bend and be open but still attached, until you're too low to cut away.

I recall a post on here from someone that they landed and found that their rapide was open and bent, barely holding the riser in place.

[dgskydive 0]

I recall a post on here from someone that they landed and found that their rapide was open and bent, barely holding the riser in place.
____________________________________________________________

I don't know if it is the guy who posted here but I have seen a guy with a French link on his necklace that was bent like that. Scary! He said as soon as he landed everything fell apart. SUPER SCARY!

In reply to THE111. If you are worried about the Slinks being set right, have your rigger tack them down! That way you don't have to worry about anything snagging. In light of what may or may not have happend with Slinks recently I will still use them but I will make sure that they are tacked down.

Dom

[Chrisky 0]

French link being bent open happened to a friend of mine, as he landed and lines lost suspension, they came off. Boy, he was as pale as snowwhite!

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[skygod7777 0]

Quote

I recall a post on here from someone that they landed and found that their rapide was open and bent, barely holding the riser in place.

i don't think that i posted it, but this has happened to my dad. got down, and went to pick up his canopy, and a whole line group fell off. about made him puke when he saw (so freaked out).

it also happened to a friend of mine, and he had just done a big phat hook, 540, and when he went to pick up his canopy, about 3 line fell off.

we're not sure why my dad's happened, but john's happened becuase he over tightened the mini link, and cracked the barrel.

later

[base698 15]

Quote

don't know if it is the guy who posted here but I have seen a guy with a French link on his necklace that was bent like that. Scary! He said as soon as he landed everything fell apart. SUPER SCARY!

I've seen this happen twice. Neither time the line groups fell off but it was very apparent they were about to, and the link was clearly broken.

[riggerrob 643]

This year I have replaced a couple of distorted (metal) Maillon Rapide links. I believe they distorted because buddy forgot to tighten them with a wrench.

Along the same logic, last year I replaced a couple of Maillon Rapide links because of stripped threads. I believe the damaged threads were caused by over-tightening the metal links.

I prefer Slinks because the idiots have not invented as many ways to assemble them incorrectly.

[kaerock 1]

I've seen and heard about people installing slinks improperly, on mains AND reserves. They are really easy to screw up if you aren't paying attention or don't know what you're doing. I quadruple check slinks, especially when they're on reserves.

Urban legend:
A guy was due for a reserve repack and was considering chopping his main and riding his reserve for 'fun'. A friend of his convinced him not to do. During the reserve repack process the rigger (not the one that packed it last) found that the reserve slinks were not connected properly and would've failed if the reserve was used.

-R

You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE

[Chrisky 0]

Quote

They are really easy to screw up if you aren't paying attention or don't know what you're doing.

Goes for anything in this sport.
RTFM, check double, have double checked by a rigger if do-it-yourself..

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[sducoach 0]

Ditto Hook,
Except the zero maintenance.

I know you check and maintain yours....................

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[vonSanta 0]

Quote

b: you must either pull down the slider or install blocks so that the slider CAN'T come down over your brakes. This was the cause of a recent fatalitiy

More details please? I'm having slinks installed soon and would like to know more.

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[vocii 0]

hey vonsanta, am online. bored. want to talk.

[Remster 30]

Quote

I recall a post on here from someone that they landed and found that their rapide was open and bent, barely holding the riser in place.

and I keep the link in my log book cover till this day....

Remster

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Ditto Hook,
Except the zero maintenance.

I know you check and maintain yours....................

They do require inspection, just like Rapide links do, but Rapide links have to also be check for tightness and have their slider bumpers replaced.

Slinks are simply replaced when they show enough wear.

Derek

[Kris 0]

I love my Slinks. I have them on my Stiletto and on my Tempo reserve.

It makes changing canopies very easy as well.

I'll inspect my slinks every couple of months and I'll take them off during my reserve repack to really give them a once-over. The set on my Stiletto has 250 jumps and one opening hard enough to shred my Stiletto. They still look brand new.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[cwn 0]

All the instances I'm aware of where rapid links have failed were with #3 1/2 links (rated for 220 lbs.) on mini risers. Has anyone seen a #5 link (rated for 620 lbs.) fail?

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

More details please?

Analysis from Bryan Burke, Skydive Arizonas S&TA here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=466420;search_string=slinks;#467069

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[vonSanta 0]

Thanks!

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[ZigZag 0]

I personally am in favour of soft-links, because the man-made fibres are stronger than the stainless steel counterparts. It is in the installation,assembly and variety of soft-links that one has to be caucious
about. New techniques require new insights, as new methods introduce new complexities!

I have so often "heard" of metal or "rapide links" failing, yet have witnessed few of these incidents. In
retrospect I can say that I never actually checked if the threads on the barrel or body were stripped on those links that have bent out of shape, yet held the assumption that they may not have been threaded correctly to specs. The few that I have seen
did not display an apparent stripping of the threads, but that is only based on memory.
So what is really better?

A forum tends to highlight problems as they are being experienced, but all to often we lack real observational skills in determining the real cause of problems, and our biases often tend to cloud our judgements.

What we are finding out now , is that slinks, soft links and related technology are not necessarily safer.
We do need better and more stringent guidelines from manufacturers in the instructions on how to assemble certain components, as a historical
review of some assembly instructions for relatively new components on the market for skydiving equipment is woefully inadequate, albeit the best efforts of some manufacturers to date.

This cannot be looked at in the light of the manufacturers' responsibility alone. Often, some innovations are generated by input from jumpers themselves, driven by the need to improve performance in an increasingly competitive environment. Some of these "innovations" reach the skydiving environment well ahead of a level of technical maturity, and manufacturers are scrambling to pick up the pieces and secure some of the rights to these "innovations", once again being driven by a level of competetiveness, but on a different scale.
This response has outstripped the scope of this thread, so I will end it here. I just hope that some folks are paying attention.
Ziggy

[Amazon 7]

I have soft links on both Main and reserve on recommendation by a couple riggers... so far not a single issue with ANY of my gear choices since I came back to skydiving after a 22 year lay off..I am really enjoying embracing the new technology in skydiving...I am more that willing to put the old ideas away. 5 cutaways on J-1 Capewells...those were enuff. Bet the 3 ring is faster and easier when I do get to chop....

Jeanne

[sundevil777 102]

I think that the barrel cracking (from exess tightening), not stripped threads on rapide links is often/usually the failure mechanism, especially for the really small versions.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am