ManBird 0
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kallend 2,105
QuoteAwesome! Is that at Skydive Chicago?QuoteI went on my first jump with a BMI. I paid for my jumpticket. The DZ pays for his slot whenever he takes a student on his/her first flight.
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Yes - both Kris and I had this experience.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Someone with 300 wingsuit jumps where only 10% are solos dedicated to maxing out on performance will most likely be lacking in glide ratio and hang time, IF you want to do some performance flying.
So, I wouldn't say "flocking is where its at." I'd say, "Flocking is where half of it is at."
No its not just about money. The flockers are there pretty regularly, sometimes organized ahead of time en mass. On the days we are there its for the duration. Back to back multi ways with everybody coming down having fun is pretty intoxicating. This draws people in.
The BMIs aren't always around or sometimes have to commit to more lucrative income skydiving, tandems, video etc. Some have to turn down offers to come to boogies, hey but If we are there its all good.
I've got a great deal of faith in some very capable mentor types out there. Don't discount them.
Remember that the purpose of a BMI is to get you through your first wingsuit flight in a bird-man suit safely. To help get you a first taste. How good you become after that is up to you.
So, I wouldn't say "flocking is where its at." I'd say, "Flocking is where half of it is at."
Of course -- free instruction versus not-free instruction. What do you expect? Much like getting into BASE -- why go pay for the BR course when you have experienced jumpers nearby that are willing to help you go in, er... take you in?Quote
I personally know someone that has one of the first S3s available has many hundreds ( 600 estimate )of flights on it but mostly does solos. No correct that almost exclusively has solo experience. He doesn't trust others flying skills and just likes playing with his protrac and GPS thingy. 6'2" and lanky. Somehow I gain his trust enough to join me for a two way. Without trying I smoke him miserably. I'm in my matter 2 which at the time was new to me and I was still figuring it out. I over estimated his number of jumps and physical stature and put too much into it at first, then I corrected and slowed down. After that he made a few mistakes that put those that lag even farther away.
Well now his curiosity had peeked and he had to come on some flocks with us. Now I'm not talking about flocking for new guys on borrowed classics. Everybody had at least a hundred wingsuit jumps. What I'm talking about here is some hard drivin hard core flying in numbers. We all had the experience over many, many jumps of trying to catch that fast flying rabbit, the kind of guy that gets three minutes if you know what I mean? This is what we used to benchmark performance. This guy had a good suit and the build but no experience fighting to catch something right there in front of him, something tangible a REAL target that was flying to out fly him and leave him in the dust ( think of it as a more forgiving type of talus). This guy had a bunch of experience looking at his overall time and distance traveled AFTER the dive. While on the ground where he could not modify his body position for immediate feedback relative to the target. He had to rely on information that could be off, way off if devices are not calibrated properly and satellite signals attained.
So I'll have to stick to my guns and maintain that flocking is where its at. What do you want to get out of it is what yet set the flock up to do in the dirt dive and who is on the flock. Solos are great for trying something new like a suit or a "hold my beer" maneuver where you don't want anybody to crash into or worse get video of something really ugly that could be used against you at a film festival.
Now if your only option is to fly with someone at your DZ that comes out of the sky like a stuka dive bomber. Then yes cut them loose and fly free once in a while, but I still recommend you get to good flocks.
***As I don't want to steal anybody's lunch money I refer people to the local BMIs and have done so publicly and also on this forum. Yet it seems that first time jumpers always find it back to our flock for their first jump course, even after this referral.
No its not just about money. The flockers are there pretty regularly, sometimes organized ahead of time en mass. On the days we are there its for the duration. Back to back multi ways with everybody coming down having fun is pretty intoxicating. This draws people in.
The BMIs aren't always around or sometimes have to commit to more lucrative income skydiving, tandems, video etc. Some have to turn down offers to come to boogies, hey but If we are there its all good.
QuoteYou may get first rate instruction from a non-BMI, but there's no real way of knowing.
I've got a great deal of faith in some very capable mentor types out there. Don't discount them.
Remember that the purpose of a BMI is to get you through your first wingsuit flight in a bird-man suit safely. To help get you a first taste. How good you become after that is up to you.
ManBird 0
Well, I didn't say "solos are where it's at", either. I'd say, "solos are where the other half is at."
The whole idea is validation and trust. The BMI program validates instructors. However, the BMI program is not the only way to go about it. Being the only BMI around, I get a lot of calls from people in Idaho, Washington, and Oregon, and have been travelling quite a bit to do FFCs. By travelling and having people travel to SDO, I've now flown with a lot of people in the Northwest US that I've found to be very skilled wingsuit pilots and skydivers in general. I now have a mental list of people that I'd recommend in a heartbeat, none of whom are BMIs.
I think that people contact me, not their local wingsuit pilots, because I have proof that I can teach them. Having met qualified wingsuit pilots who generally hold other instructional ratings, I can now send people back to their local wingsuit pilots. I think it's just a matter of validation -- "a BMI thinks this guy is OK, that's the reference I needed."
Here's a little perspective on why this is important. When I had about 180 wingsuit flights, I was inquired about giving a FFC (before I was a BMI). He asked about my qualifications, and whether or not he should wait until he meets a BMI.
"I've got 180 wingsuit flights and have taken people up before," I said.
To which he replied, "Well, I've got 300 freefly jumps and wouldn't even think of teaching anyone how to freefly."
Not really, anymore. The role of the BMI, at least in the "modern" course, goes beyond just one safe flight. We (are supposed to) teach students how to fly properly. Fun is definitely a priority, and the better you fly, the more fun you have. And many BMIs, myself included, were evaluated on more advanced coaching -- flying relative/3D, minor body position corrections, etc. This may have only applied to BMIs that were above a certain number of flights (I had over 300 at the time), but I can think of a good number of BMIs that learned and were evaluated on more advanced coaching.QuoteRemember that the purpose of a BMI is to get you through your first wingsuit flight in a bird-man suit safely. To help get you a first taste.
I'm not. You know some very capable mentors. Someone in a remote area or at a boogie that encounters a stranger has to go by heresay if the potential instructor is not certified. That person may be a very skilled instructor or they might suck ass. If they are a BMI (especially one that has gone through the modern program), then they most likely don't suck ass.QuoteI've got a great deal of faith in some very capable mentor types out there. Don't discount them.
The whole idea is validation and trust. The BMI program validates instructors. However, the BMI program is not the only way to go about it. Being the only BMI around, I get a lot of calls from people in Idaho, Washington, and Oregon, and have been travelling quite a bit to do FFCs. By travelling and having people travel to SDO, I've now flown with a lot of people in the Northwest US that I've found to be very skilled wingsuit pilots and skydivers in general. I now have a mental list of people that I'd recommend in a heartbeat, none of whom are BMIs.
I think that people contact me, not their local wingsuit pilots, because I have proof that I can teach them. Having met qualified wingsuit pilots who generally hold other instructional ratings, I can now send people back to their local wingsuit pilots. I think it's just a matter of validation -- "a BMI thinks this guy is OK, that's the reference I needed."
Here's a little perspective on why this is important. When I had about 180 wingsuit flights, I was inquired about giving a FFC (before I was a BMI). He asked about my qualifications, and whether or not he should wait until he meets a BMI.
"I've got 180 wingsuit flights and have taken people up before," I said.
To which he replied, "Well, I've got 300 freefly jumps and wouldn't even think of teaching anyone how to freefly."
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"
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Well, it's how you learn a very important skillset. This is sort of like saying CReW is where it's at. Flying relative to other canopies teaches you a lot, but doesn't necessarily improve your swoop, if that's what you're after.
Someone with 300 wingsuit jumps where only 10% are solos dedicated to maxing out on performance will most likely be lacking in glide ratio and hang time compared to someone who's mixed it up a bit more. And that's also a big if... IF you want to do some performance flying.
So, I wouldn't say "flocking is where its at." I'd say, "Flocking is where half of it is at."
Of course -- free instruction versus not-free instruction. What do you expect? Much like getting into BASE -- why go pay for the BR course when you have experienced jumpers nearby that are willing to help you go in, er... take you in?
And I believe they've accomplished that. I seriously doubt that anyone who took the same course I did would ever have the same problems as Glen's BMI. They would have failed. And people do fail the course despite the belief of some.
The advantage to BMIs that were certified through the new course is that there is a level of consistency and thoroughness that you are more or less guaranteed. I did a decent job of instruction before taking the BMI course. Since then, I'd have to say that I'm practicing a first-rate instruction method as compared to what I was doing before. You may get first rate instruction from a non-BMI, but there's no real way of knowing.
And lastly, please note the number of times that BMIs on here have said time and time again -- we don't charge if we don't have an expense, and the cost for the FFC can vary. Expect to pay more if you're at a boogie or if the BMI has to travel. You'll more than likely pay very little if you travel to a DZ with a BMI.
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