low timers on high perf wingsuits big deal or no

[ramon 0]

Hey all.

I have 0 wing suit jumps. A very nice girl at my DZ just got a classic that will fit me and she may let me try it out and there are a couple of folks with about 100 combined jumps to help me. I'm sort of bored right now and I suspect I will really like wingsuit flying.

If I like it, is it normal to do say 12 jumps on a classic then buy a skyflyer3 or a matter or Phoenix fly (when available) or is it best to buy a mid range suit (GTI).

Lurking here I do see some people that have say 20-30 total birdman jumps and have a skyflyer 3. I'm conditioned to think like its a high performance canopy even though it isn't. is the learning curve such that I can save my money and buy the best suit after a dozen jumps or so? Or does this require expert instruction from a coach?


thanks all. Sorry about the noob question.

Ramon

"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce.

[voodew1 0]

I don't think it would be a problem if you plan on doing a lot of wingsuit flights to remain more "in touch" with the suit. I have never flown an S3 due to everyone saying what a workout it is on the upper body. There have even been injuries to the shoulders from flying the suit. Just doesn't sound like fun to me.
The Pheonix suit is supposed to have less upper body pressure.

For just fun time use when not working I would suggest the GTI.

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[LouDiamond 1]

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If I like it, is it normal to do say 12 jumps on a classic then buy a skyflyer3 ...

Much like canopy piloting, when it comes to flying a wingsuit there are people who get it and pick it up qucikly and others who take a bit longer to become proficient. Individual performance will vary from person to person. However, a S3 is not going to give someone who has yet to fly the Classic II correctly better performance. In fact, it will probably be worse and a bit scary as the S3 is not as forgiving as the Classic II or GTI.

More importantly, after having made jumps on the Classic II you decide that you wish to continue flying and purchase a suit of your own you need to keep the following in mind.

If you plan on jumping the suit at least once every time you go to the DZ then a GTI will probably be a good suit for you. It is more forgiving of poor body position than a S3. Chuck and I have mentioned this before and we both agree that a S3 is a poor vanity purchase if you are still having issues on any of the other suits. If you plan on doing mostly Birdman and aren't having issues with your flight in the other suits then a S3 may be for you. The S3 is like a HiPerf canopy. You may be able to put one on and fly without incident a few times but it can be very unforgiving when something does go wrong.

My suggestion to you is to put as many jumps as you can on the loaner suit before thinking about buying a S3. In the long run it will make your transition to the S3 less of an ordeal as you will have developed your Birdman specific flying skills enough to compensate for the increased performance and demands of the S3.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Deuce 1]

OK. LouDiamond (Scott) is very knowledgeable in this area.

I too, am an Alpha type who must always be working with the other frontrunnners. I did a dozen jumps on MadJohn Dobleman's GTi before I got my SF3.

I kicked absolute ass on the GTi.

I nearly got killed on my first SF3 jump.

I jumped my SF3 with Jari and some of the very best SF fliers in the world at the Herc Boogie this past July, and they ALL KICKED MY SKYFLYING ASS!

There are plenty of guys who can beat you with a Classic. Make no mistake. I can fly my SF3 pretty good, but I am a 6 foot, 210 pound guy. the 6 foot 150 pound guys in SF3's beat me flat.

The key is to be a good suit flier first. Then try to beat the flock.

Flockin rules. Learn to "fly well with others"

[VectorBoy 0]

Ironically I found the S3 easier to fly than my classic. But let me clarify, my introduction to the S3 was via an Jari's used backvented S3, so it is not exactly the same.

In fact this suit never had issues of upper body strain, like what some people complain about, as it "bleeds off" air through the airlocks. Production S3s have more lift and the difference is easily felt.

I did find that the S3 is more forgiving of forward and aft CG shifts. It seems I had to fly my classic more upper and lower wing symmetrically deployed. The S3 does have more range to fly a little relaxed, this by the way relieves that twitchy feeling of maxed flight. I found the classic is either flying or not.

Some people have gone straight to an S3 due to unique body type and not wanting to buy a custom GTI that they won't be able to readily sell later to get the S3.

As far as being at home in a big wing suit ( or any suit ) or be at the mercy of a wingsuit, it just depends on the individual. There is no way of knowing. Most of my close friends had from fifty to 200 jumps on a classic before the S3, I had 30. I've never put the classic back on but my buddy with 200 prior and now over 150 on the S3 still goes back and forth between his various suits.

[mayday1 0]

I have flown one or two flights on each of the following, and I found them easiest to fly in this order:

GTi
Skyflier 3 (no shit)
Classic II
Skyflier1
Some old birdman suit (single front zip)
very first, very old birdman model

I found the Classic II very easy to fly and was quoted by a Birdman Intructor, who was chasing me on his S3 as saying "I fly very well". I found that the S1 was extremely twitchy, and the early model birdman suits were just crap (relatively speaking). The were like Camera suits with a leg wing. But thats what you get with 15 or so years of development in between that a Classic II or a GTi

As you can see by the numbers of wingsuit jumps I have, I am no Wingsuit expert, nor do I claim to be. This is my casual observation and experience.

[PhreeZone 20]

There was only about 3 years between the Classic and the more modern suits. Birdman as a company came around in 1999 and the Classic was their first design.

The Classic was the single zipper suit and the Classic2 is a Classic with a double front and slightly different leg/booties. Same wing design though. A Classic is not just a camera suit with a leg wing, I know Classic 1's that fly in the 50's and 60's. Its still a great suit.

Wingsuits have had a lot of design changes, but PdG was the first to have a popular design.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[fergs 0]

I'd say get a GTi - have 50 or 60 fun flights on it - decide to get your S-3, order it, tell all at the DZ you've done that - you'll have jumpers lining up to buy your GTi - sell it as soon as the S-3 arrives - then enjoy helping to coach whoever bought the GTi - flock lots with him/her - help him/her order their S-3 50 jumps later - and so on.

Before you know it, you'll have a flock around you.

My experience with the S-3 after over a 100 GTi jumps .... it can certainly bight you in the tail when not expecting it. I fear that if I'd bought an S-3 too early, I'd have gotten scared and thought twice about wingsuits.

It's all about experience, confidence and performance. There's no magic in an S-3. It demands experience. This last weekend I was jumping with a guy who swears by his GTi. And his regular 3 minute flights are testament to the fact that a GTi can rock as good as the best of the S-3 flyers.

Blue Skies,

fergs

[Jasmin 0]

Its not just a case of being easier to fly, its also about the amount of fabric you've got to deal with/get yourself into trouble with...

[Zak 0]

What's up Ramon? remember me? i lived at spaceland a few years ago. I had a classic and about 70 bm jumps. i've also jumped the gti and on two ways where i had a borrowed classic and a custom fitted newer bm flyer had a gti, 10-20 jumps at the time, and i could fly with him flying at 100% of what he could I could fly at 50% of my ability so it is all relative you gould buy the more experienced suit and i think it will take you more jumps to figure it out. trent had that suit, it was red with black wings, call him see if he's still got it.

[ramon 0]

Yo Zaky. You a Kiwi now?

maybe you could fly a classic while someone else was on a gti but you can track 2 miles in freefly pants and a tee shirt.

hahaha

Im going to see how the phoenix fly ones do at terminal and then either try one of those or get a GTi..
see-ya

ramon

"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce.

[Levin 0]

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I know Classic 1's that fly in the 50's and 60's.

i have a classic 1. i've only put about 30 jumps on it since i bought it new in 99. i've only wore a Pro-Track a few times. The last time it said 54mph.

[The111 1]

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I know Classic 1's that fly in the 50's and 60's.

i have a classic 1. i've only put about 30 jumps on it since i bought it new in 99. i've only wore a Pro-Track a few times. The last time it said 54mph.

Looking at the WL in your profile you appear very light. :) I have only 1 jump on a classic, my 1st WS jump, and I averaged 66mph. I haven't improved on that too much (high 50's) with my GTI, but I've been jumping it VERY uncurrently... :(

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Jasmin 0]

I know a guy who was getting sub 30's and 40's on a S1 a few years back, can't wait to see what he'll do with an S3...

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[leroydb 0]

i once got 32mph for about 10sec on an original classic after a long carving dive. the avge sucked though because of the dive

but the silence was eerie...

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[VectorBoy 0]

Sure, you want the fastest, newest, wiz-bang toy that all the big boys play with.

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I heard a few people post that its no fun to fly their S3 folded up all of the time flying with classics and they wish they would have just got a GTI.
I could relate to this sentiment, and its the reason some of us have kept our classics- for the slow days, but our small group mostly flys S3s now and the classics that fly with us can really hang with us.
If your group doesn't change much or you don't think it will grow and don't want to buy and sell a succession of suits then the GTI is the wizz bang toy.

• Quote

[PhreeZone 20]

I totally agree. The S3 is tending to be more of a vainity purchase any more. Out of my last 15 jumps 12 have been wingsuit flights. If it was anything less then that I'd be considering ordering a GTi and not subjecting my body to the abuse an S3 can toss at it.

In a large flock you only go as well as the fastest faller, you only get to pley with the capibilities of an S3 on Solos or with a highly experienced flock and then as the experience goes up so does the size and therefor so does the fall rate. For a while my favorite part of BM jumps was the break off since I could push it hard and fly on my own terms, I could see seperation and my self floating up. But thats an expensive suit upgrade for those 10 seconds of fun.

Unless you are willing to sell your RW suit, freefly suit and only fly Birdman on every jump... the S3 is more of an ego purchase. I know, I fell for it. Flying dirty every jump just to stay with people is ok, but its better to fly more at the limits of the suit and your self the whole time.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[greybeard 0]

I'm currently experimenting with modifications to my ws that will hopefully allow some versitility. Basic enhancements and changable additions, via zippered, on or off, wingspan, and wing attatchment points. Wish me luck!

"Learn to flock well with others".

[Jasmin 0]

Not bad (way better than me!), this guy was getting sub-30's as average speed....which is probably why he was sponsored by Bird-man!

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[leroydb 0]

yea, i do believe that some peoples bodies are "built" for skyflying. Tall skinny and light? or at least light weight? or as long as you are not part of the fatass lazy twinky eating socitey that we live...(not direct toward a hotty like yourself)

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[bodypilot1 0]

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Unless you are willing to sell your RW suit, freefly suit and only fly Birdman on every jump... the S3 is more of an ego purchase.

I strongly disagree....

Your chioce to be good at any discipline you want is your chioce when at the DZ.
Whether you do a smokin RW 4way to a 357way, a fun freefly jump, or a AFF student jump.
The suit you fly is only a benefit to your ability.
Buying a S3 has the benefit of a larger range, whether it's being able to stay with the student you just trained, thats "killin it" on the demo suit you just trained him on, to getting to your slot every time on a flocking dive, or maxin out your flight time on a solo wingsuit jump.
Being in shape for what ever suit you choose to fly is a choice.
You dont have to sell all your other suits to be in shape for the S3, or fly it with other wingsuits on every jump.
Don't let your body tell you in the middle of your skydive, that your a WUSSY!!

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Nice one, Ed.

[PhreeZone 20]

An S3 for jumpers with experience is fine, but as a suit that might get used once a month on someone thats got less then 10 Birdman jumps? That type of purchase is a vanity purchse.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

An S3 for jumpers with experience is fine, but as a suit that might get used once a month on someone thats got less then 10 Birdman jumps? That type of purchase is a vanity purchse.

Possibly true for some....

Some people do have the natural ability to be good in the suit though not getting to jump it as much as they'd like to.
But there is NO need to sell all your other suits and stop all your other skydiving disciplines you love to do to be able to fly the S3.

-

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

An S3 for jumpers with experience is fine, but as a suit that might get used once a month on someone thats got less then 10 Birdman jumps? That type of purchase is a vanity purchse.

Possibly true for some....

Some people do have the natural ability to be good in the suit though not getting to jump it as much as they'd like to.
But there is NO need to sell all your other suits and stop all your other skydiving disciplines you love to do to be able to fly the S3.

-

Well, I'm looking to buy a suit and I'd like to demo an S3 just to see....

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.