scatty 0 #1 December 13, 2004 Hi all, Hope that everyone is enjoying a good beginning to the festive season. I would like to write a few words on the Matter MTR2 Wingsuit and my opinions on the suit after skydiving and base jumping this suit over the last 6 months. I also tried to attach a quicktime of a flight I did in Norway this year crossing the Fjord from exit#6 at Kjerag, to give you an idea of the suits performance, but the file was too large (2mb) so I have posted it on my site http://www.scatter.com.au/mtr2fjordxing.mp4 Assembly The suit is very easy to assemble, it uses airtight zippers to attach to the container, and it can be assembled in about 2 minutes. There are 2 zips front and back. The cutaway system runs along the same angles as the arm zips and attaches through loops along the arm. To attach the cutaways takes about 2 minutes. The cutaway system is also a single cutaway, with the handle attaching in the centre of the chest above the chest strap. Cutting away the suit is very easy, and due to the easy re-assembly of the suit, I never have any hesitations in cutting away the suit in a situation where I need fast access to risers or toggles. I feel that suits with a more difficult cutaway system or longer re-assembly process can lead to people first attempting to unzip rather than cutting away in an emergency. This happened to a friend of mine in Norway who injured himself after a low pull and down wind landing, he was unzipping his arms, did not have enough time to turn into wind, and hit a large rock on landing. I know that a low pull is not necessary and that fast access to his 2 cutaway handles might have avoided this, however I think that when you are always in the habit of unzipping and never doing the occasional arm cutaway, then when you are in a high pressure situation you go to what you know rather than what’s best. Performance The suit has excellent performance, in forward speed, glide ratio, and vertical speed. Forward Speed I have read a few posts about people saying that the MTR2 does not have the forward speed of an S3. I would like to challenge that. I feel that the key differences between forward speeds in suits rely on the pilot and how they fly the suit. Forward speed relates to the angle you fly at, and the suit needs to be flown quite steep to get maximum forward speed. When I fly the suit, I have to keep reminding myself to stay steep, otherwise forward speed washes off. When you initially start going steep, you think that you are going to increase your vertical descent speed, however this is not the case, you initially increase your descent speed, but then that additional speed translates into lift and your forward speed increases with your vertical speed staying similar. This theory is from info I collected from jumping a season in Norway, where I always get around 40-42 seconds flight time from most exit point at Kjerag. When I began flying there I was flying half the distance as when I left, however I always had the same flight time. The difference was when I left I was flying much steeper than when I began. The glide ratio is also very good. Glide ratio is directly related to wing loading. A wing with a low wing loading is going to have a better glide ratio that a wing with a heaver wing loading. Of course the efficiency of the wing is going to play a part too. I am short and heavy, 5’8 and 160lbs, so I have a high wing loading. Someone who is 6’2 and 120lbs is going to have a much better glide ratio than me if they are flying the same suit. Even with a heavy wing loading, I have been able to achieve a good glide ratio, from a 1km high cliff I will fly 1.7km, which I believe is a great ratio. This would be higher on a skydive as you don’t have the stationary exit, but I have never jumped with a GPS so can’t give you any real data. As for vertical speed, the best average speed pro track reading I have got has been 39mph, which again I believe is a good descent rate for someone of my body size and weight. I just wanted to write a review that was factual using data that I have collected personally and confirm my thoughts to you all that the MTR2 is a great suit all round. Hope it was informative! Please feel free to email me if you want to discuss further at kim@scatter.com.au Have a great Christmas, Kim ‘Scatty’ Hopwood Ps Don’t forget to check out www.Duder300.com to download a few trailers to get a taste of what’s to come next season! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #2 December 13, 2004 QuoteGlide ratio is directly related to wing loading. I'm pretty sure that aerodynamically, that is false. Although since heavy bodies and light bodies are usually different shapes, they will fly differently. But if two people were exactly the same shape (height/"thickness") but different weights (different "densities" for argument's sake), they would fly the same glide ratios.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclecharlie109 0 #3 December 13, 2004 Quote I feel that the key differences between forward speeds in suits rely on the pilot and how they fly the suit. If you have 2 good pilots then wing design becomes the deciding factor I look forward to jumping with you, fancy a trip to Italy? Or maybe see you in Norway next year? J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scatty 0 #4 December 19, 2004 The way I look at it, I glider is going to have a better glide ratio than a glider with a ton of lead in it. Its the same aircraft, however the latter has a much higher wingloading. J- I hope I am going to be in Europe next season, if I am then we can definitely jump together in Norway or Italy. email me at kim@scatter.com.au if you would like to talk cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 December 19, 2004 Quote The way I look at it, I glider is going to have a better glide ratio than a glider with a ton of lead in it. Its the same aircraft, however the latter has a much higher wingloading. That's simply incorrect. Two gliders, one with more weight than the other, will have the -same- glide ratio. The heavier one will travel down the glide slope faster, but the angle of that slope will be the same for both.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #6 December 19, 2004 uh what weighs more a ton of feathers or a ton of lead? lolLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scatty 0 #7 December 20, 2004 Thanks Quade for the clarification Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #8 December 20, 2004 QuoteTwo gliders, one with more weight than the other, will have the -same- glide ratio. The heavier one will travel down the glide slope faster, but the angle of that slope will be the same for both. Won't you reach a point at which the stall speed will exceed the maximum speed, and the glider won't glide at all? Intuitively, I'd think there'd be load a point where it just wouldn't fly no matter what. Or is this one of those cases where intuition is just wrong?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #9 December 20, 2004 I join Tom on this one... In my head, there is a minimum and a maximum flight weight out of which performances will be VERY different to the normal flight characteristics...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 December 20, 2004 While the stall speed (Vs) does increase with weight, so does the Best Glide Airspeed (Vg). If you just kept adding weight -eventually- the aircraft wouldn't be able to travel down the same glide slope because of structural failure. It would either be travelling too fast and cause the wings to tear off or the wings would fall off because of the load factor, but Vs should never quite catch up to Vg since lift increases at a rate the square of the increase in airspeed. Double the airspeed and you quadruple the lift. So yeah, you're right, put more than about 4 times the weight of a C-152 IN a C-152 and you won't glide at all (cause the wings will just fall off). (Well, actually, it would probably drop out of the bottom of the floor.)quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #11 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteTwo gliders, one with more weight than the other, will have the -same- glide ratio. The heavier one will travel down the glide slope faster, but the angle of that slope will be the same for both. Won't you reach a point at which the stall speed will exceed the maximum speed, and the glider won't glide at all? Intuitively, I'd think there'd be load a point where it just wouldn't fly no matter what. Or is this one of those cases where intuition is just wrong? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Yes, when you seriously over-load a wing, the stall speed approaches the glide speed and it just falls out of the sky. For example, if you try loading an F-111 main more than 2 pounds per square foot, it will stall out of the sky. At best there will be 2 inches of toggle travel between full-flight and stall. By the same token, when you seriously under-load a wing, it ceases to be a wing. For example, if you hang a tiny (sub 100 pound) Japanese girl under a Manta 290, it quits flying like a square parachute. It takes forever to inflate, It does not have enough suspended weight to "drive" it around the sky, rather it "wanders." Asking that same Japanese girl to flare her Manta 290 is largely a waste of time, as the canopy trajectory does not change significantly. Fortunately said Manta is travelling so slowly that she will survive the landing no matter what she does with the toggles. The same theory applies to wing suits, we just do not have enough experience to assign numbers to various suits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,030 #12 December 21, 2004 QuoteQuote The way I look at it, I glider is going to have a better glide ratio than a glider with a ton of lead in it. Its the same aircraft, however the latter has a much higher wingloading. That's simply incorrect. Two gliders, one with more weight than the other, will have the -same- glide ratio. The heavier one will travel down the glide slope faster, but the angle of that slope will be the same for both. Quade is correct. Glider pilots (I am one) often carry ballast for increasing airspeed. There is no sacrifice in glide ratio 'cos there's no change in Cl/Cd(max).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
