greybeard 0 #1 February 22, 2005 The consencous seems to be 'FLOCKING' is the way to have fun. Any yea's or neh's? I got into skydiving late in my 30's as an escape from competetive sports. The fun, for me, is in the group. Both in the air and on the ground. I've been on some incredible flocks, that I still daydream and relive. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #2 February 22, 2005 I have to say flocking with friends is the best - I prefer no dock tight formations w/ rotations myself as the docking with others tends to always get a little hairy when it is more than 2. If docking is in order foot docks are the cool thing in my book. When nobody can play a solo tandem swoop is always good to though! The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ikenever 1 #3 February 23, 2005 Greybeard thank you for starting part II. Part I was starting to give me a headache. I think we need to start enjoying one another. I know one thing for sure, 90% of the people writing into this forum will quit skydiving within the next two years. YOU THINK I'M KIDDING!!! My point... enjoy your friends, I have a new set of friends every two-three years. I miss my old friends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #4 February 23, 2005 2 years? humm i could make about 10k selling all my gear, and thats cheap too so who wants dibs on my s3? I am 155 and 5'9"(69")Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #5 February 23, 2005 QuoteI know one thing for sure, 90% of the people writing into this forum will quit skydiving within the next two years. They come and go, dont they! Keepin' it safe! Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #6 February 23, 2005 Robert had a pretty clear-cut take on direction of wingsuiting in this month's Skydiving... "In the future, I think that wingsuit skydiving will develop into sub-disciplines, with suits optimized for each discipline, similar to what we see on the canopy market. 1. Free flocking for those who love cruising around the skies with friends. 2. Acrobatic flying for performing acrobatic maneuvers. 3. Performance flying for maximizing flight performance." His admitted discipline, which was a completely different category, is wingsuit B.A.S.E. Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #7 February 23, 2005 Quote1. Free flocking for those who love cruising around the skies with friends. 2. Acrobatic flying for performing acrobatic maneuvers. 3. Performance flying for maximizing flight performance." I would bet that's right, simply because ultimately this will be equipment-led: as manufacturers aim to generate better glide etc etc the suits necessarily become more specialised. e.g. "1" requires a suit with a large performance envelope "2" may be satisfied by a suit designed for "1", but I wouldn't be surprised if a specialist acrobatic suit came out The characteristics and way of flying for "3" is very different; a suit designed for such would surely be ideal for BASE, for which suits are already specifically designed. All depends on how many people get into the discipline, and therefore how big the market is... What wonderful options. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #8 February 23, 2005 Quotebut I wouldn't be surprised if a specialist acrobatic suit came out Good call on your part. The prototype PHI suit seen HERE was made specifically with that in mind. The wing shape/size and inflation methods all allowed for greater acrobatics with out sacraficing performance outright."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #9 February 23, 2005 Gimme the acrobatics suit..I want it now! (Oh and make sure its delivered and gift wrapped) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 3 #10 February 23, 2005 hello, Nowadays, wingsuits fly in range of glide ratio between 1.5:1 - 3+:1. Regardless of what kind of suit you wear in a skydiving environment, every type of suit is pretty much suitable for flocking. Flocking group is always adjusting (mostly) to the easiest-weakest flyer. Logic is telling us that probably the best suit for flocking would be the one with the best glide ratio, simply because that kind of suit can offer you more range. On the other hand the suit for acrobatics must be the suit which will have great roll speed (for example) and the part of the glide ratio will be sacrificed for sure. The question is how many people will go for it. Also, one of the misconceptions often seen in WS activities is that people distinguish the skydiving WS from BASE WS. That is quite funny because the BASE WS is a just more radical way of flying, but the principle of flying is the same. EVERY TYPE OF WS used in BASE is GOOD for skydiving. BASE environment is just harsher and require additional skills, like exit in no-speed, good ''transition'' skill, etc... New WS disciplines will certainly emerge in the future. How long it will take, it's hard to say, but I would like to say that development of the new types of WS will mostly depend on WS flyers needs. Regards PS. The suit under PHi name (post by Lou Dimond)is the suit made by me in February 2004. That prototype was cancelled by Jari after I've separated from BirdMan. Please don't mix this suit with the future BirdMan PHi suit.Robert Pecnik robert@phoenix-fly.com www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #11 February 23, 2005 QuoteRobert had a pretty clear-cut take on direction of wingsuiting in this month's Skydiving... The Feb issue? I didn't see that in there, what am I overlooking?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #12 February 23, 2005 QuoteThe prototype PHI suit [not confusing with the newer PHi Robert spoke of] was made specifically with that in mind. The wing shape/size and inflation methods all allowed for greater acrobatics with out sacraficing performance outright. Interesting leg wing - it's much smaller than, for example, either the S1/S3. Also the trailing edges of the wings appear to be slightly curved... or is that just me? I presume that any "acrobatic" suit would benefit from a reduction in stability, simply to make it more manoeuvrable? This would make it less friendly for flocking - and difficult to fly.-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #13 February 23, 2005 QuoteThat prototype was cancelled by Jari after I've separated from BirdMan. Please don't mix this suit with the future BirdMan PHi suit. That is correct and like many prototypes it does not necessarily reflect what the production model or later versions might look like. The reference to that prototype was merely used as an example in response to the preceeding question. PenDragon: you are correct, the trailing edge of the wing on that suit is curved much like a gull wing and the tail wing is shorter than the S1/S3, it is more in line with the GTI leg wing in length. However, the suit was not unstable as you eluded to. Actually, it flew quite well in both orientations as it also had another means of inflation when one was on their back. As for flocking it was not any more difficult for me to stay with it and it was realitively easy to fly(similar to a GTI) as the pilot in the pictures is Jari's brother who did not have more than 50 wingsuit jumps at the time."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #14 February 23, 2005 QuoteHowever, the suit was not unstable as you eluded to. Actually, it flew quite well in both orientations as it also had another means of inflation when one was on their back. I didn't mean unstable in terms of twitchiness necessarily, just that there would be greater sensitivity to contol input. For example, I was thinking of a hang glider diheral providing roll stability; moving to a flatter angle (or even anhedral) makes the wing more unstable (i.e. more sensitive to control input) but easy to bank/roll. I'm curious as to what the thinking was here with the particular designs. The smaller leg wing I can see would be useful when barrel-rolling; why the curved trailing edge? I presume you had air-locks on either side, hence the ability to back-fly? (something that eludes me at the best of times... ) Nice to see interesting developments and prototypes!-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likvidskaj 0 #15 February 23, 2005 And who knows - if some day high-performance wingsuits (with high-performace pilots) will actually be able to land, maybe some future aerobatic wingsuits will be able to achieve an upward vertical penetration like aerobatic airplanes do. That would be somethig! Who knows Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #16 February 23, 2005 QuoteAlso, one of the misconceptions often seen in WS activities is that people distinguish the skydiving WS from BASE WS. I think it's the other way around. I distinguish skydiving from BASE - I think the wingsuiting part is similar. Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greybeard 0 #17 February 25, 2005 I don't know what compulsory moves are required in freefly, but can you imagine BB setting the world on fire with ws moves in freefly competition that no judge could begin to interpret or score. What a HOOT that could be. Are there any regs regarding the clothing worn in feefly competition? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #18 February 25, 2005 QuoteI don't know what compulsory moves are required in freefly, but can you imagine BB setting the world on fire with ws moves in freefly competition that no judge could begin to interpret or score. What a HOOT that could be. Are there any regs regarding the clothing worn in feefly competition? Where did that come from? Truly forward thinking, there... Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greybeard 0 #19 February 25, 2005 Guess I was a little out of context. I was thinking of BBarnhouse' post regarding the aerobatic style suits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #20 February 26, 2005 You aren't far off base. I have seen her do some pretty amazing things in the suit when we were goofing off. You haven't seen anything until you've seen freestyle moves done in a suit. Really cool stuff to see."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
