PC in tow / Hacky Mal...

[skydiverek 63]

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The golf ball handles on the Sigma do not go into the relative wind at all. They are attached via a bungie system to deploy the drougue.

I was actually referring to the plastic ball with ridges around it which is attached to the APEX of the drogue.

[Peej 0]

What about the Mirage low profile freefly handle? Is that safe to WS with? It's made of foam right?

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[unclecharlie95 3]

At the end of the day it comes down to your own personal preference.

I would happily use the mirage handle for ws for two reasons:

-it is light weight
-it has no "snag points" (unlike the single attachment point of a hackey / monkey fist, which the bridle can wrap around)

J

BASEstore.it

[dragon2 2]

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A similar thing happened to me a few years ago...

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What I did do well, was to think before I took action and I only did one thing at a time. I was wondering, how a 500 jumps person that's never flown camera wings would have handled this situation.

Or worse, someone with 200 jumps.

For me it's the other way round, the big camera wings I occasionally jump are easy compared to even the Classic, I think I've learned a lot by flying my wingsuits that makes flying camera wings easier and safer

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[nicknitro71 0]

Well after reading this I decided to get rid of my monkey fist handle on my WS PC although I have never had a problem with it.

I installed one of those very light practice golf balls.

The difference in weight is remarkable.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[kalla 0]

Tis was I, who had the incident Tonto mentioned.
Tonto, thanks for the thread. Made for some interesting reading.

Here's some more info as requested:
Container: Jav Odyssey
Main: 135 Saber2
Reserve: Tempo 150
DZ Elevation 5000AGL
PC was ZP not F111
PC size: 32" diameter
PC as mentioned by Tonto WAS a Hacky! Not anymore.
Bridle length: 6.7ft

It was deployed in a STABLE body position, legs straight and everything closed as to reduce the burble. It was a POSITIVE pitch also to make sure the PC hit clean air.

C ya!
Kalla

[notsane 0]

This whole thread is a real eye-opener. I'm going to switch out my hackey handle for a golf whiffle-ball this weekend. I just don't need the kind of surprises I've been reading about here!

[flyinfishman 0]

Glad you made it out of that situation OK
Sounds like it would have happened with or without a wingsuit.

My new PC has a PVC handle.

The golf ball is light but it's still one attachment point and I've heard they wear out a lot faster.
JIM

[nicknitro71 0]

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The golf ball is light but it's still one attachment point and I've heard they wear out a lot faster

Two points like a normal hackey/monkey fist.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[flyinfishman 0]

I have a regular hackey with two attachment points, and they are so close together, it might as well be one... not like a PVC.

[ikenever 1]

The line between the hackey and the PC apex can and will trap the bridle and or part of the PC. It is a poor design especially for ws deployments due to the extended length bridle. If you do decide to use a practice golf ball (whiffle) instead, be prepared to some day dig your PC out of your BOC with your finger. Those balls BREAK. We used them back in the 1970's and they wear out in no time. I make my own PC's. I have used a common design handle that has worked well for years especially when it comes to tossing a tandem drogue. The handles that I install are very similar to what the tandem manufacturers use for their drogue system. As mentioned earlier in this thread I am endorsing the light weight foam w/cordura or parapak shell sewn to the apex of the PC. (I think it was called a freefly handle??) No snag points, lite and easy to grab and pull and encourages the PC to high tail it to the back of the canopy instead of the nose during deployment.

[KrisFlyZ 0]

This mal happened at SDC. The rig was a Wings. The foam/cordura part is not sewn on to the ZP on wings PCs. It is connected by tape just like a hackey is.

Kris.

[speedformula 0]

got pics ?

Keeping it real 22x7

[Peej 0]

Thanks. I currently jump a hackey but will be ordering another Mirage PC with freefrly handle shortly.

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[ikenever 1]

Will post some pics within a day

[ikenever 1]

Photos of PC handle (lite foam w/cordura shell sewn to PC apex)

[flyinfishman 0]

That's actually a better option than any I've heard yet.
There doesn't seem to be any drawbacks.
I'm definitely changing to this one.
thank you sir!

JIM

[moonglo 0]

Here's my pc in tow from Z-hills Flock&Dock. The handle tucked into the opening at the bottom of the mesh (see pic) and made it impossible to inflate. The pc was new 8-10 jumps ago; I changed out my old pc with 6' bridal and heavy hacky handle for this longer, lighter weight version.

container: vector 3
main: sabre2 150
pc: 9' bridal 32" zp monkey fist handle from RWS
reserve:raven-m 150
cypres
Birdman GTi
82 wingsuit jumps since Aug. 2004
435 jumps since Oct. 2001
3rd reserve ride (only one caused by wingsuit)

Of the 4 openings in the mesh part of the pc, only 2 are big enough for the handle to fit in. I always pack my pc the same, folding all the mesh inside, then folding in the bridal, then rolling it up from handle to edge. When I landed the pc was still cocked, pin still in place, main flap still closed, and bridal still tucked in more than 1/2 way to the boc.

I think this was due to a lazy throw (first jump Sat. morning after Fri. jumping and bonfire) and made possible by my wingsuit burble and lower speed. I pulled both handles simultaneously @ 2k' and had a tangled mess of main pc and left reserve risers, but the reserve was open and flying. I unzipped armwings, carefully untangled pc from risers, undid booties, and unstowed my breaks by 1200'. Nice standup landing 100' away from runway 1/2 way along it from the main landing area.
-J

[Tonto 1]

So... are you going to stay with this? When you say this is longer and lighter, that's relative, right?

Are you still using a hacky?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[moonglo 0]

I'm going to stick with this monkey fist- I usually jump in gloves and I like the grip it gives me.

Longer bridal- old one was 6', new one 9'
Lighter weight- old pc had standard semi-heavy hacky, new pc had lightweight monkeyfist (weighs slightly more than orange pvc, but less than anything else I've come across)

I am going to look into having my rigger move it's attachment points out a bit wider in the hopes of making this less likely in the future. It was a very tight fit to recreate the mal, and I don't think it will be a problem as long as I have positive aggressive pc throws

[Tonto 1]

Time will tell..

What's inside the monkeyfist to make it so light?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[moonglo 0]

Seems to be a ping pong ball or hard foam?

[bodypilot1 0]

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What's inside the monkeyfist to make it so light?

Tonto

I seen one of the new Monkey fists last week, and I'd have to say I was surprised at how light it actually was.


Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Tonto 1]

Good to know.

I worry that some people making these things don't understand the concept of low weight.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[ikenever 1]

A low weight does help. The handle making it's way into the pc base hole is very rare. The main culprit is the short lanyard that connects the ball to the apex of the pc. A bridle/handle entanglement is the type pc malfunction that I have seen on occasion.