SimonM 0 #1 March 6, 2005 Hi All, Well my sugarglider arrived as promised, 2 weeks after ordering and a couple of hours later it was in the air! The quality of the workmanship is excellent- finish is, in my view, on par with the birdman suits and way better than on my s-fly. There are a lot of clever details like padded knees, extra velcro to hold the cutaway handles securely in place and a flap along the wing to cover the cutaway loops. The booties even had cool blue leather feet that matched the rest of the suit. Fit is great as you would expect from a custom made suit. The suit is very easy to hook up- 4 zips in a similar system to the s-fly, probably takes less that 1 min and you are good to go. Getting into the suit is a bit more tricky than an S3- there is only 1 zip in the middle so you have quite a narrow opening to get into, but I am sure it will get easier with practise. So, what is it like to fly ? Absolutely awesome! It suit inflates and gets lift instantly out the door. The flying position feels very natural and not particularly stressed- slightly cupped body and arms forward but not 'rolled over'. Legs are wider than an S3. It found it way less tiring than flying the s3. I was expecting it to feel mushy in turns like the s-fly but it is a lot crisper- closer to an s3. I honestly could not believe the vertical speeds I was getting- first flight while trying out different body positions was average 40mph over the whole jump (measured on a protrack). I am not a particularly good pilot- the best average I had ever got from my s3 was 51mph. After downloading the jumps last night, I saw that there were a couple of 20 second sections on the low 30's. The visuals were amazing it felt like I was flying horozontally alongside the clouds forever with almost no sensation of falling. At one stage I had to check my alti very carefully as the flight was going on so long and the ground was refusing to come up! The big question is how fast forward is it. It feels a bit slower than the s3 but I havnt been able to download my gps track to test it out. My guess (based on 4 jumps) is that for me it will be slower but have a much better glide ratio and cover a lot more ground that I am currently able to do in an s3. Openings were nothing exciting, the wing material covered the puff slightly and after deploying, there was a noticeable amount of extra material blown up around my arms. Unzipping legs and arms as per usual. All in all an awesome suit!! Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedformula 0 #2 March 6, 2005 pics!! Keeping it real 22x7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #3 March 7, 2005 Thanks for the report. Speedformula, Simon posted a ground pic of the suit a few weeks ago in the this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1494496;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Let's see some more though dude! Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonM 0 #4 March 7, 2005 Quote Let's see some more though dude! See Julian's pics- better than I could ever hope to do. If people would like detailed pics of the suit, let me know and I will take some. Cheers, Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclecharlie95 3 #5 March 7, 2005 Hey Simon, Suit looks sweet, nice colors. Will be interesting to see the forward speed, I figure it will fly similar to the other monowings (S-Fly and derivatives). Look forward to trying one. Long flights, JBASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #6 March 8, 2005 My god yes dude detailed pics please! Right now I'm starting to consider my next suit... I had decided to get a Vampire but now I'm seeing more of this sugar glider and its rapidly getting my attention. I like the vampire for familiarity of construction layout and design. Might not be "birdman" name brand but its got what seems to be the Pecnik signature layout of pinched waist dual zipper front distinct cell shapes and up-the-sides cutaways. The leg wing looks much bigger than the sugar glider's (much better drive?) and the mylar stiffeners and wingtip extensions may put it ahead. This sugar glider looks insane but is its wrist to ankle wing enough to compensate for its lack of the above features? I can't tell from the pics available how the wings are set up, details of zippers, booties, wrist cuffs, how the cutaways work, etc. Its looking like a Ford/Chevy fight here. I fly a GTI so the Vamp has kind of like brand loyalty going for it too. Which has more wing area? A vamp or an sg sized the same? Has anyone flown both? If so, which suit got you more freefall time? More range? The impression I get is the Vamp would be a speed/range suit and the SG a floatier/slowfall suit. I'm all about the airtime so I wonder which will deliver more overall time in the clouds: A Vamp flown for distance and speed, thus shaving fallrate, or an SG flown for hangtime which looks like it derives half its lift from just being freaking huge and displacing a buttload of air? I can wring about 2:58 from a GTI on a good day so I'm thinking one of those two suits will deliver somewhere between 4:05 to 4:20-25-ish. Which one? Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclecharlie95 3 #7 March 8, 2005 The answer is easy - buy both! ;) Both give you good hang time if that is what rings your bell. For flocking and glide the SG will probably have less range though. I recommend you try both. JBASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #8 March 8, 2005 Well if I got one it'd be specific for psycho hangtime. I'm so damn light in a GTI flying with a guy in an SF3 I still had to fly wings half collapsed to keep up with his fallrate. I've seriously considered wearing weights to fine tune the fallrate range and jack up my suits wingload enough to fly better with others. Likely keep the GTI as my social suit and a new megasuit for flying solo or with anyone else who can stay up with me. Then later I can loan the big suit to heavier birds and fly the GTI with THEM.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonM 0 #9 March 8, 2005 Quote My god yes dude detailed pics please! okay will get to it in a few days. I am almost certain that there is nobody who has flown both a SG and a Vampire so I dont think you will find somebody to comment with authority. When we start to see the speed data from both suits we will get a better idea. For me, the real question is which suit is more fun. I suspect that in the end you will need both! I spoke to Julian earlier today who says that he has been able to stay with S3's for forward speed no problem. The SG will have plenty of range to fly with smaller suits- I have seen it first hand flying with my S-fly and a SG. In a way it should be easier to flock with floaty birds in small suits as you dont need massive forward speed to generate the lift (as per S3). Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norcaljumper 0 #10 March 8, 2005 Quote For flocking and glide the SG will probably have less range though. And how many times have you flocked or BASE jumped the SG to come to this conclusion? Or is this another attempt at trashing another wingsuit because it's not the V1? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #11 March 8, 2005 Quote I spoke to Julian earlier today who says that he has been able to stay with S3's for forward speed no problem. Doesn't really apply to the average skydiver - Jules is tall, skinny and talented, with thousands of skydives experience. He could probably stay with most S3s if he was flying a Classic. Of course he does live with Barney... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #12 March 8, 2005 What the heck is the deal with the suit bashing? I don't see angst argument or sniping back and forth between devotees of particular canopies, so why wingsuits? Although I prefer the familiar layout of birdman suits I'm waiting on a decision as to which of the new big suits I prefer till I've seen and handled them and seen best average times distances and fallrates SG vs V1 flown by the same pilot so the skills present technique experience and weight are all the same. A comparison of a V1 flown by a 5'7" 160 lb pilot w-800 jumps VS an SG flown by a 5'10" 125 lb pilot with 2100 jumps is meaningless. If I know the weight and rough skill level of the pilots who fly it before me I can take an educated guess as to what it will do for me...If an SG test pilot who weighs 160 lbs and can regularly get 2:45 out of an SF3 can consistently nail 3:30 with an SG chances are I can do the same since I'm 135 lbs and can do 2:45 easy with a GTI. THATS the kind of info I'm looking for. I ain't buying either suit till I see what it'll get me. I ain't spending 1200$ on a suit that turns out to only get me an extra 15 seconds of flight, only to find out the other one is better.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #13 March 8, 2005 I might take that a step further and say that a comparison between two identical people with the same number of total wingsuit flights is meaningless unless they have commensurate skill levels with the respective suits. Even if you have a zillion flights on an S3, your performance is likely to be a bit off on your first SG flight, for example, and vice versa. I guess we're all just going to have to try the suits out for ourselves. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #14 March 9, 2005 Quote Even if you have a zillion flights on an S3, your performance is likely to be a bit off on your first SG flight, for example, and vice versa. I agree. My first flights on the MTR2 and the SG weren't the greatest, as they have much different flying styles. The whole "what suit is the best thing" makes me laugh, as we all fly a suit diffently and to each of our own skill levels, variety is the spice of life. Keepin' it safe! Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #15 March 9, 2005 Hey Paul where is that Sugar Glider demo you said that you would send me - might not be a bad idea to post where one can buy these suits too if your going to be sending out demos in the future. Later Bro Voodew The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedformula 0 #16 March 9, 2005 What up Jason:> An SG demo suit should be on its way, which is cool, cant wait for it, Im shipping you mine this week as soon as I get it back from the rigger since he is replacing a busted zipper in the back of the suit. hope you all llike it. paul Keeping it real 22x7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonM 0 #17 March 9, 2005 Quote What the heck is the deal with the suit bashing? I dont know why people do this. I have suits from 3 different manufacturers and I enjoy all of them! They are different not necessarily better or worse. Quote If an SG test pilot who weighs 160 lbs and can regularly get 2:45 out of an SF3 can consistently nail 3:30 with an SG chances are I can do the same since I'm 135 lbs and can do 2:45 easy with a GTI. I am not a SG test pilot or by any means an experienced pilot. But on my first 4 times out on the SG I was getting significantly slower vertical speeds than I ever got on my S3 (after about 50 S3 jumps). I am 100% certain you will get much slower vertical speeds on a SG than on your GTi. But then for me that is only 1/3 of the picture. The other is forward speed and ability to flock with a range of different suits. Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites