freefaller76 0 #1 October 8, 2003 I am in the market for gear and am trying to make a decision between a round or a square reserve. I would be interested in talking to anyone out there who jumps a round reserve and why they chose it over a square one. Furthermore, if you jump a round reserve, what type is it? Are they still manufactured? What do they cost? What are the best ones to go with? As a military jumper, I have a few static line jumps on a CT-1 (similar to the US T-10). I assume that a civilian round reserve would handle pretty much the same as a military chute. Thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #2 October 8, 2003 Here's a thread I started on round reserves. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=340224;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; My guess is that most people will tell you to get a square reserve especially if you've never flown a round main. Hope that helps!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #3 October 8, 2003 Do a search, there's lots of info on this from past threads - prety much no one jumps a round reserve unless they have to for finacial reasons. They're cheep cos no one wants em. The starter mag in the UK specifically advises against them. They offer very little as an advantage over a square and what benefits they do offer are more than eaten up by the additional risks they carry. Get a square reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #4 October 8, 2003 I saw Richardd land a round reserve recently and it was not a pretty sight. Given how much attention is paid to spotting (ie not alot) having very little control over where you are going to land is not just an unappealing prospect, it's potentially very dangerous. There are good reasons why very few people have round reserves these days. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,504 #5 October 8, 2003 I have a round reserve in my backup rig. But I also have a bunch of round jumps. I wouldn't advise your getting one for financial purposes by and large. They're too diffferent. You don't flare them. You have a far more limited site selection for landing (they are steerable, and they do have forward motion, but not much). You just have to accept with a reserve, especially a round one, that your job is only to find a safe place to land; not close necessarily, not the one you want, or anything else like that. You will almost certainly not be able to land close to your main. You also have to PLF. A good one, it shouldn't be the first one you've done since student status. It's perfectly possible to jump a round reserve; but no one considers the implications of jumping a round any more, so it's all up to you (winds, spot). So I wouldn't suggest it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #6 October 8, 2003 I've got lots of round jumps, round reserves too. Lots of reasons not to get one, few, if any, to get one. The main points have been covered above. Just adding my voice to the melee. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #7 October 8, 2003 Let me save you some research time. I too, am a former military jumper and started skydiving when things were still round. While I can understand your familiarity with rounds, as you progress in the sport you'll realize that, 1) square reserves are our friend because they will allow you more canopy control, 2) cost is comparable with a square, and 3) should you decide to sell it, resale is higher. Once you learn to fly the square main well and you've had some bad spots, you'll be glad you went with a square reserve. As for dependability, both the main and the reserve have about a 99.9997% chance of opening. The only situation I can say that one might want a round reserve is in the two canopy out scenario. But if you do as trained, you shouldn't find yourself in that situation. Finally, the civilian round reserves have a descent and weight ratio that is humbling. One of them has a 19/ft per second descent rate with 175# (of exit weight). If you thought the 35' parabolic military rounds thumped us, you're in for a real thumpin if you have to use the civilian conical round. edit: your to you're Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #8 October 8, 2003 go for the square, easier to pack. Some riggers don't have the tools to pack a round. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #9 October 9, 2003 Unless you spot, and spot well, for a round reserve ride on EVERY load you may someday find yourself in big trouble. On an Otter or other large load usually the first/last out get a short/long spot. If you have big dangerous obstacles around you may not be able to avoid landing in them (land in a river and your odds of survival are poor. power lines suck too.) A truly steerable reserve is way safer as far as I'm concerned. Stick with the square reserve.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 October 9, 2003 Actually... packing a round reserve is faster and easier then a square in alot of containers. It takes less tools then a Freebaged main takes in almost all those cases too.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #11 October 9, 2003 Quotego for the square, easier to pack. Some riggers don't have the tools to pack a round. What special tools does a rigger need to pack a round reserve? Do you have any idea how a round reserve is packed?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #12 October 9, 2003 I have 50 round jumps, and 2 round reserve uses. I have over 3000 dives and 15 square reserve rides A round will get you down. A square will get you there. There is no reason for you to even consider a round reserve. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 October 9, 2003 QuoteQuotego for the square, easier to pack. Some riggers don't have the tools to pack a round. What special tools does a rigger need to pack a round reserve? Do you have any idea how a round reserve is packed? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Packing table with a hook on one end tension board shot bags line separator Bromocreasol green special clamps for tensile testing fish scale (recently re-calibrated), etc. Yes, it is possible to pack a round canopy on the floor, but my knees and back told me to quit that years ago. Fewer and fewer lofts stock these tools any more while fewer and fewer riggers CARE about round reserves any more. We are already at the point where the only riggers who will touch round reserves are a handful of grumpy old gray-beards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #14 October 9, 2003 QuoteI am in the market for gear and am trying to make a decision between a round or a square reserve. I would be interested in talking to anyone out there who jumps a round reserve and why they chose it over a square one. Furthermore, if you jump a round reserve, what type is it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have owned a 26 foot conical Baby Cobra made by Niagara Parachutes and an F-111 Defender (also a 26 foot conical) made by Mid West Parachutes. I sold the Defender in 1985 and both companies closed a long time ago. My last ride on a round reserve was on a canopy made by Fallschirmdienst Herbst, of West Germany. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are they still manufactured? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. Try North American Aerodynamics or Strong Enterprises. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do they cost? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New round reserves cost almost as much as new square reserves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What are the best ones to go with? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NAA 26 foot Lopo or Strong 26 foot Mid Lite. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a military jumper, I have a few static line jumps on a CT-1 (similar to the US T-10). I assume that a civilian round reserve would handle pretty much the same as a military chute. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are jumping in a Province with as many trees as New Brunswick, you would be wise to buy a square reserve. It will make the difference between landing on the DZ or hanging up in a tree. Hint: the last time I used a round reserve, I landed in a French swamp. The problem was that I planned to land at a German DZ. Hee! Hee! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 October 9, 2003 >We are already at the point where the only riggers who will touch round reserves are a handful of grumpy old gray-beards. Me and one of the riggers I'm learnign from both love rounds. He's got one in his second rig and I love packing rigs with rounds and bailout rigs. Most the rounds are about my age too. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #16 October 9, 2003 rounds are still used quite frequently BASE jumping as water rigs. I am looking foward to learning how to pack a round reserve for my rigger's ticket. Any technology that is different but yet functions to the same end is interesting to me. I wouldn't want to have a round reserve in my rig though. I want a square reserve about the same size as my main (you can't swoop a round). --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #17 October 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuotego for the square, easier to pack. Some riggers don't have the tools to pack a round. What special tools does a rigger need to pack a round reserve? Do you have any idea how a round reserve is packed? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Packing table with a hook on one end tension board shot bags line separator Bromocreasol green special clamps for tensile testing fish scale (recently re-calibrated), etc. Yes, it is possible to pack a round canopy on the floor, but my knees and back told me to quit that years ago. Fewer and fewer lofts stock these tools any more while fewer and fewer riggers CARE about round reserves any more. We are already at the point where the only riggers who will touch round reserves are a handful of grumpy old gray-beards. Except for the table, those are things I would think every rigger should have in his kit.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gulaz 1 #18 October 10, 2003 You can pack a round with the same equipment as a square, and isnt any more complicated Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #19 October 10, 2003 I jumped in the 70's and then quit though the 80's and 90's. I'm sure there have been many advances in rounds during those years. Everyone so far has given good advice. You'd be smart to get a square reserve. I had a couple reserve rides on 24 ft rounds. Both were modified differently. The first let me down fairly soft (for a round) but the 2nd oscillated like hell and was nearly unstearable. I ended up spraining both ankles in a rock pile. I've always heard good things about 26-conicals. This is probably a better choice. But like I said I was out of the sport for about 25 years, so what do I know. I usually packed round reserves, on the floor. As Rigger Rob mentioned a table is a much better way to go. I kind of miss flaking. But then again, I'm getting old and senile.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #20 October 11, 2003 I've had a few reserve rides under 26 ft lopos during the seventies. They're not as horrible as modern folklore makes them sound. You will probably land out, but then again I managed to land right in the middle of the DZ once or twice (?? - don't ask...). They don't open as fast as squares, which is something to think of if you're down to where your Cypres ( buy one for God's sake, if not your own) gets twitchy. I was always able to land mine standing up with a good rear riser flare. Other than the fact that a partially opened round seems to be more survivable than a partially opened square, the squares are better all around. Also in a "double out" situation your round reserve tends to act like an anchor, collapsing the main, or at least holding you up. Put it this way, I'm trying to put a new rig together and I'm not even thinking of anything but a square reserve, and I've got over 300 round jumps. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #21 October 13, 2003 Packing, landing, controllability, and price issues aside... A round reserve might keep you on the ground if winds are marginal. Just something else to consider. I know from personal experience that being on the ground because the wind is out of limits for round reserves, while your squared up friends are frolicking, really sucks. I can't see a good reason for jumping a round from new, and I'd be reluctant to have one in my front line rig..-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
