sabre 2 190 for a beginner

[freeryde13 0]

i got 20 jumps, been using a navigator 210, last jump i jumped a sabre 190, and liked it. i messed up my landing a little bit, slide on my knees that is. but i like it and know what i did wrong.

a gear guy was telling me that the sabre 2 190 would be a good main for me. i am 175 or so and pretty athletic with good reflexes, but i'm old enough to not want to push things too far . i want to remain safe but want to keep on experiencing new things in this sport.

i figure to be buying a rig buy about 30-40 jumps, would this be a good main. any opinions wold be greatly appreciated.....thanx.


p.s.... the reason i ask is that in the incident report section, there was a thread about a diver with 30 jumps with a spector 190, and alot of people said that he shouldn't have had that chute.

_________________________________________

people see me as a challenge to their balance

[ianmdrennan 2]

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p.s.... the reason i ask is that in the incident report section, there was a thread about a diver with 30 jumps with a spector 190, and alot of people said that he shouldn't have had that chute.

Quick FYI it was a Stiletto (Very different and much responsive than a Spectre).

On to the question at hand. Well with your weight a 190 is right on the edge of 1:1 (assuming the 175 or so is the low end of 170 and not the high end
One last thing...what do your instructors think you should be getting?

Good luck with your choices.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[skybytch 273]

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there was a thread about a diver with 30 jumps with a spector 190, and alot of people said that he shouldn't have had that chute.

The jumper in that incident was flying a Stiletto, not a Spectre. The Spectre is a good choice for a first canopy. The Stiletto is not.

Demo before you buy. Only you can decide what a good main for you will be. Sabre, Sabre2, Spectre, Safire2, Triathlon, Pilot, Hornet.... all are good first canopies.

Do a search in this forum for the subject "demo". You'll find lots of info on how to go about getting various canopies for you to put a few jumps on.

[AggieDave 6]

What have your instructors (or former instructors) said? They're the ones that could truely help you make this decision, since they know what to look for and they see you jump.

In my personal experience, a Sabre2 is a good canopy for a low time jumper, IF jumped at a light wingloading. Obviously, this also depends on the person in question, since some folks have a little more trouble with canopy control then others.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pilotdave 0]

I jump a PD150 (F111 9 cell) but am about to buy a new canopy. I demoed a sabre2 150 and today a 135 and found it sooo much easier to land than my canopy. It's definitely higher performance so you need to get an appropriate wing loading, but that doesn't necessarily make it more difficult to fly. I've got a demo sabre2 on its way from PD right now (today I demoed one from aerostore) so I'll put some more jumps on it before I make my final decision, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna buy a sabre2 135. Great openings, greater landings. And for me, great landings means EASY landings, not swoops, which it's also capable of.

Dave

[INSANEDADDY 0]

I have 200 jumps or so on a Sabre 190. I am a little heavier than you. I love this canopy. It opens really soft and on heading. Even with a light wing loading it is still pretty responsive. I had a toggle unstow on one of the openings. It spun fast enough to get your attention. I am sure you will have no problems with this canopy. I am going to demo Sabre 2 170 one of these days........

You dont't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when.......You can only decide how you're going to live........NOW.
-BASE 1605 Night BASE 227

[b1jercat 0]

Hi, the Saber2 is a great canopy and is a good first canopy for the aspiring canopy pilot. Two things to remember, no low turns, braked turns when low. No exceptions. I don't have a problem with your wing loading, I jumped a Saber2 190 at 1.3 starting at about jump 40 or so as my first canopy. And on the saber2 the issues to me aren't so much wing loading, but good judgment under canopy. People point their finger at the saber2 and think big docile canopy when the fact of the matter is, the saber2 is an entry level high performance canopy. If you want to learn to swoop then the saber2 is a good place to start if not than there are other choices out there. good luck.

blue skies

jerry

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I jumped a Saber2 190 at 1.3 starting at about jump 40 or so as my first canopy. And on the saber2 the issues to me aren't so much wing loading, but good judgment under canopy.

Wingloading is an issue on any canopy. Recomendations are to keep the wingloading at 1:1 or lower, with a MINIMUM size of 150 (light people factor) for the beginning of a skydiving career. We've learnt a lot on how NOT to do things that used to be considered acceptable (higher wingloadings for novices), one only needs to read the incidents to see that this mentality is still out there, but hopefully reducing.

Encouraging higher wingloadings for inexperienced people is not recommended. There is NO reason to load up a canopy when you're starting out.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[skybytch 273]

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I jumped a Saber2 190 at 1.3 starting at about jump 40 or so as my first canopy

And lucky you, shit either hasn't happened to you yet or didn't happen until you were capable of dealing with it.

Honestly - at 40 jumps what would you have done if someone cut you off on final? Could you have landed it safely downwind in a 5 mph wind? How about a 10mph wind? Could you have landed it safely crosswind? Could you have sunk it into a tight landing area? Could you have landed that canopy in someone's backyard and walked away?

If you're going to give wingloading advice here, remember that you have no idea how skilled the person asking for the advice is. You've never seen them land a parachute. You probably don't know the peculiarities of the dz that person jumps at (i.e. outs, wind conditions, ground altitude). Assume that the person is average or less than average in skill level and keep the advice conservative. Please.

If the person who started this thread took your "advice" and bought something he'd load at 1.3 and then had shit happen...

[chester 0]

first is 175 your exit weight? that can make a diference on the wing loading think about it

J-S
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[arlo 0]

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I don't have a problem with your wing loading, I jumped a Saber2 190 at 1.3 starting at about jump 40 or so as my first canopy. And on the saber2 the issues to me aren't so much wing loading, but good judgment under canopy.

Jerry, this is the kind of attitude that is fucking killing people. seriously.

you are saying that it is OKAY for someone with 40 jumps to load a canopy at 1.3 to 1?? and that you have 150 jumps?

dude, please, if you're gonna give advice, give advice that's good and that won't fucking kill somebody! you may not see anything wrong with what you said, but that's exactly what is killing people. you are absolutely oblivious to what is safe and recommending a higher wingloading to a student is wrong. if in doubt, check PDs website and see for yourself. better yet, call PD and tell them about the advice YOU gave a student and see who agrees with you.

if you honestly believe the advice you gave is good, i implore you to talk to some experienced folks at your dz because you are terribly mistaken.

sorry so harsh, but motherfuckers are dying left and right and i for one will not stand silently by as the new fledglings are given shit advice.

arlo

[PhreeZone 20]

Thank you Arlo!

I've seen a lot of newbies that give advice with out realizine they don't even know what they are really giving advice about.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[headoverheels 333]

You'll probably like the Sabre2 210 also. It will give you a bit more range than the 190, getting back from a long spot, is certainly sporty enough at your weight to allow you to learn the full range of canopy flying techniques, and will let you handle less-than-ideal situations better.

Check the PD web page, and you will see that you are a bit heavy, or too inexperienced, for a 190. In fact, as a novice, you will be a bit above the maximum recommended exit weight for a 210, assuming your body weight is 175, plus clothes, rig, main and reserve.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/sabre2.htm

There's nothing that you can learn on a 190 that you can't learn on a 210. In fact, you will probably be able to learn quicker, as well as more safely, on the larger canopy. Your instructors may even recommend a larger one.

BTW, the Spectre and Sabre2 lose more altitude in a turn than a Stiletto, according to PD. They require more control input, so they are less "twitchy," but you can easily put yourself in a bad situation the Sabre2 or Spectre.

Choose well, have fun, be safe!

[freeryde13 0]

thankyou all so much for al the knowledge. i am trying to learn every hting i can about this sport to do it safely for myself and others.

_________________________________________

people see me as a challenge to their balance

[b1jercat 0]

Freeryde13, Please do not mistake my own personal experience with the saber2 as advise in any way shape or form. It would have been better left out of my post. I didn't realize this was an advice forum, sorry my bad.
I would be the first to admit had I followed the factory recommendations on wing loading, my transition to a performance canopy might have been smoother.
While it is my opinion that making a wise choice on your first canopy/wing loading will stack the odds in your favor of making a safe progression, it is by no means a guarantee.

blue skies

jerry

[ypelchat 0]

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I jumped a Saber2 190 at 1.3 starting at about jump 40 or so as my first canopy. And on the saber2 the issues to me aren't so much wing loading, but good judgment under canopy.

You must learn how to walk, before you can learn how to run.

One jump at a time.

Yes the Sabre2 may be a good canopy for a beginner, but not over a 1:1 wingloading.

Yves.