Check your wings Cut away cable

[medusa 0]

I have some were around 50 W/S jumps. I have never had top chop my wings, and I had never check the release system before, but this jump will teach me a lesson.

I was doing a 3 way flock, I was taken stills and had my Still camera on top.

We B.off at 5.000 and I pull At 2.5, My chute went to a line twist immediately after living the container it looks like a packing error.

After deployment I didn't knew what was going on but it felt wired, so I try to look above to see what kind of malfunction I was having. But my still camera wouldn’t allow me to look up, my chute was starting to turn and the turn was starting to pick up speed. By the way the harness felt and the turn that my chute initiated after deployment I assume I was having a line twist.
So with no time to lose I reach my Quick Wing Cut Away system, using a strong forward motion, I try to chop my wings off and I couldn’t. So I give it a second strongest try and I was not able to chop neither of my wings.
I unzip my wings and wile I was doing it, my line twist has clear off. Got a love that Saber II.

I hook up my wings in the manufacture recommended way. “Always run your cables behind and out of the way of your emergency handles.” I believe that under canopy this method will contributed to created friction and a hard pull of your wing cut away system.

My best advice to you out there is to chop your wings under canopy even once, to check on how does the system works, don’t wait until a malfunction to figured out that your wings will never come off due to friction.
“Releasing the wings is not as easy as you might believe, give it a try you might be surprised."

Had any body experience the same problem? Any suggestions?

Attach are some pictures that show how do I have been running my cables behind my harness.

Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

[GeordieSkydiver 0]

What kind of wingsuit was it?

That picture looks the way it should be, but what does it look like under load? (ie wear your gear and have someone lift your rig up at the back, as if you're under canopy)

Does it look the same? I'm guessing the laterals move up enough to jam the cut away system.

I'm sure BM advise missing the third loop as you have, but tayloring this to suit your rig and fit. (correct me if I'm wrong somebody)

I'm saying this out of a concern I had, not random guesswork.

*Edited for afterthought and spooling.

Lee _______________________________

In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy?
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk

[eisen009 0]

Shouldn't you be able to cut away without having to cutaway your wings first? I'm very new to W/S flying but that was my understanding. I'd love to hear from experienced people as to why that would not be the case.

[dragon2 2]

You can cutaway just fine without chopping your wings, only getting rid of linetwists without getting rid of your wings first can be a problem

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[LouDiamond 1]

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We B.off at 5.000 and I pull At 2.5,

Remember a wingsuit jump is not like any other jump and you further complicated this by also having a camera to worry about. It is always a series of events that adds up to one bad one. Give yourself as much of a chance as possible by pulling higher when flying in general and especially with a camera. Had you been under anything but a Saber II you might have had a different experience.

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using a strong forward motion, I try to chop my wings off and I couldn’t. So I give it a second strongest try and I was not able to chop neither of my wings.

If I understand you correctly, you were pulling the handles forward, to the front of your body. The handles will disengage very easily when pulled correctly. However, if you try and apply force to them either to the front or rear of the wearer you are in effect pulling on them from a 45-90 degree angle and this will cause tension in the system. The wing cut away handles when pulled either simultaneously or individually should be pulled so that your arms go from parallel to perpendicular to your body. In other words, grasping the handles from the side of your body open your arms like you are opening them to fly and the cables will easily slide out. On the ground, try pulling the wing cutaway handles in the correct and incorrect way and you will see how much of a difference it can make in the amount of force that needs to be applied.

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I unzip my wings and wile I was doing it, my line twist has clear off.

This is the important part and the way it is taught by BMIs. If you can unzip your wings, ie: the zipper isn't jammed and the situation permits, it is just as fast and to your benefit to unzip your arms then to pull the arm cutaways. Zippers are the primary means of freeing your arms, the wing cutaway system is a back up to that in the event that you cannot open the zippers. Each emergency situation can be different but sticking to a system that is tried and true will ensure you don't waste time trying to decide what to do when you don't have very much time. Go with what you know first and that is unzipping.

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Attach are some pictures that show how do I have been running my cables behind my harness.

That picture is correct for lacing the back of the suit up .


Glad you're alright bro. See you in a few days

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[medusa 0]

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Shouldn't you be able to cut away without having to cutaway your wings first? I'm very new to W/S flying but that was my understanding. I'd love to hear from experienced people as to why that would not be the case.

yes, you are right you can initiate emergencies procedures with out cutting away your wings. But I wanted to give it a try to clear off the line twist, a line twist in a Sabre II 135 is pretty stable and most of the time you can clear it off.
.

Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

[medusa 0]

Quote

Quote

We B.off at 5.000 and I pull At 2.5,

Remember a wingsuit jump is not like any other jump and you further complicated this by also having a camera to worry about. It is always a series of events that adds up to one bad one. Give yourself as much of a chance as possible by pulling higher when flying in general and especially with a camera. Had you been under anything but a Saber II you might have had a different experience.

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using a strong forward motion, I try to chop my wings off and I couldn’t. So I give it a second strongest try and I was not able to chop neither of my wings.

If I understand you correctly, you were pulling the handles forward, to the front of your body. The handles will disengage very easily when pulled correctly. However, if you try and apply force to them either to the front or rear of the wearer you are in effect pulling on them from a 45-90 degree angle and this will cause tension in the system. The wing cut away handles when pulled either simultaneously or individually should be pulled so that your arms go from parallel to perpendicular to your body. In other words, grasping the handles from the side of your body open your arms like you are opening them to fly and the cables will easily slide out. On the ground, try pulling the wing cutaway handles in the correct and incorrect way and you will see how much of a difference it can make in the amount of force that needs to be applied.

Quote

I unzip my wings and wile I was doing it, my line twist has clear off.

This is the important part and the way it is taught by BMIs. If you can unzip your wings, ie: the zipper isn't jammed and the situation permits, it is just as fast and to your benefit to unzip your arms then to pull the arm cutaways. Zippers are the primary means of freeing your arms, the wing cutaway system is a back up to that in the event that you cannot open the zippers. Each emergency situation can be different but sticking to a system that is tried and true will ensure you don't waste time trying to decide what to do when you don't have very much time. Go with what you know first and that is unzipping.

Quote

Attach are some pictures that show how do I have been running my cables behind my harness.

That picture is correct for lacing the back of the suit up .


Glad you're alright bro. See you in a few days

scot,
I was pulling them the way I was tought in the Wing Suit first jump Course, is like when you are in the gym and you are working your biceps.

I try to chop my wing off becouse is faster that unziping, and I needed my arms ASP.

But you are right, give your self extra altitud
I will post the video as soon as I can get a fired wired cable.

Thanks for the advice see ya in few days.
.

Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

[The111 1]

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I was pulling them the way I was tought in the Wing Suit first jump Course, is like when you are in the gym and you are working your biceps.

Not sure who taught you that, but as Scott said it won't work. In case you didn't understand the other description, think "jumping jack", as opposed to bicep curl.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Tonto 1]

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I was pulling them the way I was tought in the Wing Suit first jump Course, is like when you are in the gym and you are working your biceps.

Not sure who taught you that, but as Scott said it won't work. In case you didn't understand the other description, think "jumping jack", as opposed to bicep curl.

My Birdman flight manual says...

"To cut away the wings, simply grab the handles and pull them up towards your head."

That is contrary to what both you and Scott are saying.

A "Jumping jack" will not bring your hands towards your head.

I've been teaching the "Bicep curl" to all my students and none have had any difficulty cutting the wings away apart from PJ, who (on a PHI) was pulling the cables AROUND the fablic loop - which resulted in it being torn off and that was the cause of the hard pull.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[LouDiamond 1]

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That is contrary to what both you and Scott are saying.

A "Jumping jack" will not bring your hands towards your head.

I updated the current Birdman flight manual a while back and you are correct in what it states.However, I know you do things different in SA but a jumping jack is started from the position of attention and involves moving ones arms from thier sides to above their heads when the movement is executed(we will disregard what the legs do as it is not relevant to this topic). If the term "jumping jack" doesn't sit well with you then I would tell you that the movement is best described as moving ones arms outward(not to the front(bicep curl) or rear of the body) and upwards while grasping the handles.

Your comment has gotten me to thinking that I may have to write a SA version of the flight manual now

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Tonto 1]

I've been in the military... I know what a Jumping Jack is.

Perhaps I need to come over there and give you a geometry lesson, cos when you do a jumping jack - it would be better to describe the move as "Raise your arms sideways and keep them as far away from your head as possible."



t

It's the year of the Pig.

[LouDiamond 1]

THIS is how we do a jumping jack in the US and as far as I know, everywhere else in the world(except SA apparently) and ones arms are actually closer to ones head during the first movement than when at rest. Perhaps you can show us what you mean as I am at a loss for how ones arms would be farther away from ones head.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Tonto 1]

We do them the same way but we don't dress funny.

One of the things I was taught as an instructor was to look for ways people will misunderstand you. While "arms" may be very clear to you when thinking upper arm, the forearms, wrists and hands are immesurably closer until the wings actually release, after which their positioning is somewhat academic..

I watched a sack race at a primary school once. 30 kids, each with a sack. Teacher says, "When I blow my whistle, I want everyone to jump into their sacks and race to the line." Whistle blows. 29 kids jump in feet 1st and start to hop to the line. One kid pulls the sack over his head and races to the line, winning easily, because the sacs were thin enough to mostly see through.

The winner had never heard of a sack race before. When I chatted to him afterwards (He was 6) he thought it was dumb to have a race if you were going to slow yourself down, so the head first made perfect sense to him.

The Jumping Jack presents several problems WRT cutting away wings.

1. WAY less arm strength.

2. Depending on the suit and the build of the jumper - that move may NOT release the last (or last few tabs) as the movement may be limited by the wingspan of the suit.

3. It AGAIN exposes those troublesome wings to the airflow - which may be the very reason the jumper wants to be rid of them.

4. It will almost certainly result in one wing being released sooner than the other if 1. is an issue, resulting in further issues if 3 was the reason.

I do beleive that everyone who jumps a wingsuit should practice their wing cutaway sequence, and to ensure their planned sequence is operational for their gear, strength etc. We practice other emergency drills, right? What's the cost here? 100% real, cos you're in your gear, under canopy, and the confidence of knowing what you do (or what you teach) actually works.

I do mine whenever I know I'm taking the suit off, which is usually every second weekend or so when AFF gets busy and I need my back to back.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[TomAiello 26]

This is an interesting discussion.

I made my first wingsuit jumps back before there were BMI's. Although I had good guidance from an experienced flyer, I didn't have the structured first flight course you see today.

At any rate, I can't recall being taught any particular way to cut away the wings.

However, I have cut away the wings around 100 times (I do it on almost every flight).

I simply grap the handles and pull them away from my body. Although there is a little bit of "up" to that motion, I think it's mostly just straight out, to the sides. [I tend to follow this up with a re-grab (for the leg handle) and a pull straight up, to get the leg cutaway, and bring my hands to the risers/toggles.]

At any rate, I use neither a "jumping jack" (which I interpreted pretty much as Tonto did--my apologies as the last time someone taught me to do a jumping jack I was 11 years old, so I may have it wrong) nor a "bicep curl".

Is there a disadvantage to my "pull straight out" method? Maybe on some suits there's not enough wingspan to get the cables all the way out?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[The111 1]

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Is there a disadvantage to my "pull straight out" method?

Supposedly she can still get pregnant.

...

I think the jumping jack motion does ensure the most cable removal, but if you are able to get the whole thing out just by your sideways motion, and it's working for you, that's great. I seem to remember trying a sidewways motion with mine once, and the cables didn't quite come all the way out. I guess the most important thing to take home from this discussion is we should all try it a few times on the ground, and maybe even after opening just for the hell of it (something I still haven't tried).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Tonto 1]

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At any rate, I can't recall being taught any particular way to cut away the wings.

I can't recall ever being taught how to climb out of a car, and yet I manage it effortlessly now because I have developed my own technique over the years, and I practice often.

I think that's the key.

The more we do, the less we need to be taught.
When I give the BMI course, I'll ask my student to cut their wings away. If they do so and experience no problems, I don't teach them how. If they struggle, we'll figure something out between us.

Personally, I use the Bicep curl. The mere fact that I can get my knuckles to my nose and the ends of my cable only go as high as my armpits means this ensures all the cable will be out of the suit. I've had no strength issues with this, but I've never done it in freefall. Since I was never taught by a BMI (Because there was no BMI within 6000 miles) I had only the flight manual to go on, and it worked for me.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[medusa 0]

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I guess the most important thing to take home from this discussion is we should all try it a few times on the ground, and maybe even after opening just for the hell of it (something I still haven't tried).

I have practice on the ground my cut away system like 9 times and it works just fine, but under canopy It didn't work at all.

Tonto had brought some really good points, jumping jack techniq will spouse your wing to the air flow making the situation even worst.
.

Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

[LouDiamond 1]

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It AGAIN exposes those troublesome wings to the airflow

Normally when one is forced to forego the zippers and use the secondary arm cutaways, they are already under some sort of canopy be it good or not. In these circumstances the airflow isn't as big of an issue as is getting ones arms free to deal with whatever problem one may have. Cutting the wings away while in flight is an extremely bad thing to do and I cannot think of one good reason or instance why anyone would be inclined or need to do such a thing when there are other easier and less problematic courses of action that can be taken.

While reasons 1-4 may seem like legitimate arguments they are easily proven false on the ground or in the air. If you think otherwise, then I invite you to try them for yourself. I have done them in both an emergency and non emergency situation and none of the 4 reasons stated proved to be an issue. If we were to follow your logic, even if you were to use the incorrect "bicep curl" method, to pull the wing cutaway handles, the 4 problems you listed would still present themselves and still be non issues. The only thing that it would do is what medusa experienced and that is make it more difficult to get the cables to pull smoothly out.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[LouDiamond 1]

Medusa and I had the opportunity to get our bird on this past sunday at skydive Miami. If you haven't been to SD Miami then I encourage you to check it out. It is a very nice small DZ with very friendly staff and people. The scenery from altitude is also very nice, especially at sunset.

Medusa and I were able to get some good flights in and he/we got it on video. After the discussion in this thread and a practical application both on the ground and in the air, Medusa has come to same conclussion that pulling the cables out to the sides( ala jumping jack) is far easier and the prefered method of choice. BTW, if you haven't seen the "medusa" head gear you really need to as it is cool to see in flight

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Nightwing 0]

Hey Tonto,

Well you taught me and I've personally chopped my wings under canopy and in freefall just to see if it I could do it without any hassles following what you taught me and it worked perfectly.
I reckon everyone should try it and find what works for their build and wing design.

Long safe flights,
Caw-Caw,

Courteney.

Drags me down, like some sweet gravity...
Nightwing has stirred, and taken to flight...the silence is over, he's shattered the night!!!