tso-d_chris 0 #26 November 7, 2005 Quoteyea, but he use's a base canopy.... It's a TSOd skydiving rig, per your requirements. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #27 November 7, 2005 I am not pro lowpulling in a WS or not, dont take my reply as I am for it. I was just stating that he was probally not jumping on a set DZ... maybe it was an open field? anyone want to pipe in on the exact FAR's? Quote QuoteI don't think he was on a USPA DZ... What difference does that make? USPA dz or not, any DZO/DZM that sees you pulling at 400ft intentionally will most likely send you walking.... Be safe EdLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dploi 0 #28 November 7, 2005 QuoteI'm un-officially starting a contest for the lowest recorded opening on your neptune/dytter. You MUST use a skydiving rig and exit from a plane with a wingsuit. Post a picture of your neptune for proof... The winner gets a steak dinner from Tom A. Here's my entry........This is right up there with a "how far can you stick a chainsaw down your throa?t" contest. The one time I pitched at about a 1K' with a Katana 97 on my back, I grounded myself for the rest of the day (no one saw me do it). I'd spent a few months BASE jumping without skydives and developed some habits that were bad for skydiving. The canopy opened straight and on heading at around 500', giving me just enough time to unzip my arms, pull the LQRS, and do a hint of navigation to landing (still did a 90° front, though). Had I received my occassional half-to-full spiral on opening, which adds about 300' - 400' to the opening, it'd be interesting. If I had a mal, I'd be dead (but that canopy never mal'ed). Anywho... congrats on the ground rush, but don't genuinely encourage others to do this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #29 November 7, 2005 QuoteI'd spent a few months BASE jumping without skydives and developed some habits that were bad for skydiving. That's interesting. I find that BASE jumping makes me a more conservative skydiver. Since I know what kinds of systems are necessary for repeatable pulls at 300 feet, and I see just how different they are from skydiving rigs, I become very mistrustful of the skydiving gear. This has generally led me to increase my average deployment altitude when skydiving from around 2000' (before I started BASE) to about 3500' (now, with a wingsuit).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #30 November 7, 2005 Quote Since I know what kinds of systems are necessary for repeatable pulls at 300 feet, and I see just how different they are from skydiving rigs, I become very mistrustful of the skydiving gear. Have you performed mods or configuration changes on the skydiving gear to help it emulate BASE gear(if feasible), or simply written off all those differences into the higher deployment altitude? thanks."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #31 November 7, 2005 QuoteHave you performed mods or configuration changes on the skydiving gear to help it emulate BASE gear(if feasible), or simply written off all those differences into the higher deployment altitude? thanks. Nope. I'm just using pretty standard skydiving gear. If you wanted to modify skydiving gear to make it more BASE-like, it'd be pretty easy to put together a "low pull rig" using existing gear, though. I've seen a couple of those wandering around. Freepack an undersized BASE canopy with a mesh slider into a skyhook equipped rig, and you're already pretty close.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #32 November 7, 2005 Quote If your exit altitude is correct, as well as your opening altitude, I'd say your time of only 2 mins 46 seconds, your flying skills, well....... SUCK! Be safe Ed Depends on how much distance he covered Ed . Also 46-48 MPH(46mph is assuming a 1000' pull) can be a very good average based on the suit he was flying and his size. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCARYPERRY 0 #33 November 7, 2005 Base canopy or not......without PROPER training AND special gear this is not something for anyone to try.The list of DZ's i have been booted from is ....well growing!!!!have had some close calls and getting rep for careless actions.Not always good!! Dont get me wrong!!!!! I love to humm it,some dz's wont let me jump unless I have a neptune set to proper date and time....tried leaven it off, then turning it on when called to manifest...well hell!!! cant blame one for trying can ya?? lets be careful out there, there have been NO fatalities tied to wingsuit in us in long time, only one a few years ago in midwest....lets keep USPA off our back and stay safe..and if your gonna hum it.....do it late in day so others dont get stupid trying to beat you and we have accident... otherwise, put on the smoke and fly baby fly!!!!!!Only he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #34 November 8, 2005 Quoteas one of the pioneers of the modern era of wingsuit flying died on a wingsuit jump and the cause seems pretty clearly linked to his wingsuit... Really? I thought it was a rigging error? Quotethey may be gone, but they are not forgotten You seem to have forgotten about Geoff, Sam.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #35 November 8, 2005 I think someone died from a bad landing in DeLand ~2 years ago, from landing out in a tight spot on a wingsuit jump. The suit was a fairly direct cause since it allowed him to get to where he opened/landed.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #36 November 8, 2005 QuoteThe suit was a fairly direct cause since it allowed him to get to where he opened/landed. thats like saying someone that ate it in on an off landing after a tracking dive died b/c of the track dive. If the suit didn't cause a canopy mal and the jumper had the arm and leg wings released then I'd call it a landing related death not a wingsuit related death.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #37 November 8, 2005 Quotethats like saying someone that ate it in on an off landing after a tracking dive died b/c of the track dive. Yes, it is like that. If you track yourself to a spot where you can't survive a parachute landing, tracking was a cause. As was your inability to land a parachute in that location. Most incidents have more than one "cause". One of the most important safety issues when learning to fly a wingsuit is knowing WHERE to fly it.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhracer33 0 #38 November 8, 2005 canopy was a zp exe 155 loaded at 1.4 to 1. Standerd skydiving rig with the exception of a birdman bridle/pilot chute and cut corners on the container. I'll check the video later tonight to find out how long of a canopy ride it was. I had enough time to unzip both arms, one leg, pop toggles, turn and land. If we get the video up, you'll see thats it doesn't look as bad as it sounds.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fenceline 0 #39 November 8, 2005 Would tracking, or flying a wingsuit out so far as to cause a bad spot be considered a factor, not a cause of a canopy related injury or death. If he turn low, he turn low and that was the cause. Why he ended up turning low would be a factor. Big difference. One can have one without the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #40 November 8, 2005 Quotecanopy was a zp exe 155 loaded at 1.4 to 1. Standerd skydiving rig with the exception of a birdman bridle/pilot chute and cut corners on the container. I'll check the video later tonight to find out how long of a canopy ride it was. I had enough time to unzip both arms, one leg, pop toggles, turn and land. If we get the video up, you'll see thats it doesn't look as bad as it sounds.... Congrats on surviving doing something stupid. Being proud of it is just laughable. Do the rest of us a favor and don't try to beat your own record and end up a grease spot in the process. We don't need that kind of media coverage in this area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #41 November 8, 2005 You are right "factor" is a better word... that is what I meant when I said one of "many causes". To a degree, it's semantics: we are saying the same thing. The point is it was a wingsuit related fatality.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fenceline 0 #42 November 8, 2005 I guess my point is, the wingsuit wasn't what caused the fatality. Sure the guy pushed it too far, and then instead of taking a safe out, tried to force his way back. Regardless of what gear he had on, the decision to force his way back instead of picking an out is what did him in. If something about the wingsuit (ie, a wing blow out, poor throw tangling with a wing, etc) caused the fatality, the I'd classify it as a wingsuit related death. In my humble view, that was a pilot error related death. Brain mal. Just my view, to each there own. Jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatever 0 #43 November 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteas one of the pioneers of the modern era of wingsuit flying died on a wingsuit jump and the cause seems pretty clearly linked to his wingsuit... Really? I thought it was a rigging error? technically speaking I guess you could say it was the rigging error, but I consider it a wingsuit fatality, as he was doing the rigging because of his wingsuit and would not have done it if the wingsuit was not involved, therefore no wingsuit = no additional rigging = no rigging error = no fatality Quote You seem to have forgotten about Geoff, Sam. how do you figure, please elaborate? on a sidenote, are you headed for the desert again this year? soon to be gone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #44 November 8, 2005 Consider this analogy. A jumper hooks himself into the ground flying a 2.5:1 Velocity; his injuries are fatal. Sure, the incident was unarguably a case of pilot error, but the canopy was a major factor. Under a 1:1 Spectre, the same error would not have driven him into the ground nearly as hard, and he probably would have lived. While flying a wingsuit with an efficient glide ratio, a jumper flies himself directly away from the DZ, opens his parachute over a rough landing area and does not survive his landing. Sure, the incident was unarguably a case of pilot error, but the wingsuit was a major factor. Tracking in a freefly suit, the same navigational error would not have taken him nearly as far away from the DZ. QuoteSure the guy pushed it too far, and then instead of taking a safe out, tried to force his way back. Regardless of what gear he had on, the decision to force his way back instead of picking an out is what did him in. How do you know he was trying to "force his way back"? How do you know he didn't choose the best out he had, and it was too tight for him? There are not always safe outs. It is possible to open up over a cone of possibility where all your potential landing areas SUCK. This is why it is important to think about your groundtrack WHILE flying the wingsuit.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCARYPERRY 0 #45 November 8, 2005 lets put this on track....i believe the talk of rigging error was patrick D the father of modern wingsuits...yes that was rigging error! the incedent in midwest was entanglement re: unstable deployment, wrapped in lines MAL!!!! the incedent in Deland was a inst cert course,he had bad spot, very few wingsuit flights late in the day, new dz,he picked a bad out!!!! he died as a result of LANDING!!!! wingsuit had nothing to do with him hooken it in!!!!!Only he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCARYPERRY 0 #46 November 8, 2005 one more thing......was this low pull on purpose or did someone lose track of altitude/have other problem or just got bad reading on neptune?? I dont see any info on jump #s!!! I dont want to see ANYONE go in cause some one else f*cked up and thinks its cute!!! Sure I pull low sometimes, but have gear set up for this, have ws base jumps from different altitudes,have about pissed myself cause i got cocky.....this is real,not a game for newbies or wanna be cool personalities!!!!Dying to get press does no one any goodOnly he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #47 November 8, 2005 Thanks this thread was getting stupid --- I was waiting until we blamed the GPS on the aircraft for the bad spot, which caused the fatality, before I got in on it. The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #48 November 8, 2005 QuoteSomehow I think Perry is going to win this one... Perry "Chainsaw Trowbridge" wimped out on his "low pull rig" this weekend and dumped at 1000 feet while flying a Prodigy from a helicopter. We all went "I thought Perry was going to dump low", but such was not the case. Still, the man is crazy for skydiving at all with an entire palm full of stitches. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydonkey 0 #49 November 8, 2005 QuoteSure the guy pushed it too far, and then instead of taking a safe out, tried to force his way back. Regardless of what gear he had on, the decision to force his way back instead of picking an out is what did him in. The following are quotes from the two people that landed with James, both are very experienced instructors, one is also a DZO. They obviously picked the Safest "out" that was available to them given the options available. Quote At break-off, everyone opened uneventfully. I followed James from approximately 4000 feet down. At about 1500 feet, a few people peeled off for a different landing area. James, myself and another picked a smaller but do-able spot. There was a large flag that indicated to us that we would be landing right into the wind. The first of the three of us landed fine. James followed about 10 seconds later. At treetop level (100 feet) James executed a light left toggle turn (most likely, he was spooked by the telephone pole that was close). Just as he had started to turn, he dropped below the tree level and the 10 knots of wind that he had was instantly gone. His canopy dove and he hit the ground at the same time as it. Just at that time, I dropped below the tree level and surged forward. I flared and landed running but standing up – the wind was non existent. Quote After My Landing there was a Car stopping close to the point where i touched down the driver ask me if i need a lift back to the dropzone. The same Driver called the emergency number after i told him to do that. I pearsonally belive that he did not wanted to land in the Car or on the road. Thats why he did the hektic turn. QuoteIn my humble view, that was a pilot error related death. Brain mal. James was one of the most intelligent and level headed people that I have ever met. My opinion would be that a combination of unfortunate factors caused him to make error that cost him his life. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are talking about someone that died tragically doing something that he loved. Can I please ask that people consider the use of terms such as Brain Mal regardless of fault or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsane 0 #50 November 8, 2005 I was on the dive. We all have to remember that the primary thing we need to do after exit is to get back on the ground safely. Landing out can happen anytime and seems to happen more frequently with wingsuits. If you find yourself out after opening pick the largest, safest area to land. We've all seen folks fixate on getting as close as they can to the DZ when there's plently of room to land right under their feet. Walking back beats riding in the ambulance every time. Pick your landing spot high while you have lots of choices, don't wait to see how far you can make it back and find yourself low with few choices. Stress builds too when you layer things on ... big-way, wingsuit, off DZ landing ... suddenly a mistake you never would have made under normal conditions is the one that gets you hurt, or worse. The saying that there are old skydivers and bold skydivers but no old, bold skydivers rings true. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
