bodypilot1 0 #26 December 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteI have to say the head position for BASE, single or multiple jumper exits from the same object, to achieve maximum body position for performance, this chin to chest position probably would work the best. But IMO, using this postion on a skydive with other wingsuit flyers in the air, it can be deadly. Point very well taken. On the other hand, if you're not going for maxed out flight, what's the point in struggling for the last 2% of performance that the aerodynamic helmet might give you? It sounds to me like this might be another one of those places where BASE and skydiving flights are diverging. I personally wouldn't buy any helmet to gain performance, because that 2%, if that, minimal gain doesn't matter to me. I do thing the Italian helmet looks cool though. I wear no helmet or an open faced helmet so I can YELL at the fuckers next to me. Only in the cold winter months do I ever wear my full faced Factory Diver. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #27 December 29, 2005 QuoteI wear no helmet or an open faced helmet so I can YELL at the fuckers next to me. Only in the cold winter months do I ever wear my full faced Factory Diver. Likewise, I only wear my full face when it is really cold out or when I am using the Air to Air communications system I built. Being able to yell as well as give a count during flocking/ training students is a must."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #28 December 29, 2005 QuoteWhat is the price convertion to USD? 265 to 290$ for the Long tail integral helmetscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #29 December 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteYuri, Two questions.. 1) What helmet do you use? is it carbon fiber protec? Quote O.k, I get it now . I believe I've heard that he does not wear a helmet before....just didn't remember. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airowpoint 0 #30 December 29, 2005 QuoteAccording to (Kyle at el, 1987 “Streamline Your Body and Your Bike”, Bicycling), an aerodynamic helmet does provide a 5.2% aerodynamic advantage and save 47 seconds if travelled 40 km. Aerodynamics helmet is relatively crucial and valuable to an athletes. Since wingsuiters go a lot faster this aerodynamic advantage will be even more (I don't know the definition of aerodynamic advantage though). It might just give you the extra performance to win the Chris Martin Memorial AwardTristan Will you answer "NO" to my next question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #31 December 29, 2005 QuoteSince wingsuiters go a lot faster this aerodynamic advantage will be even more I'd take that % number with a grain of salt as if you do more research you will find the 2% reduction in drag is the low end and based on the results of different studies, is more realistic than any of the higher % numbers listed. In fact, if you read farther down in the article I cited, you will see the bare dummy head offers the least drag/resistance. Obviously hair can create drag, as can a helmet, etc. If a bare dummy head has less drag it would stand to reason that if a tight balaclava type head covering, as worn by some olympic track stars, was worn it would closely approximate a bare dummy head as it would remove the drag created by hair,ears, etc and present a more aerodynamic effcient profile especially if high tech materials were used.Combine that with the aerodynamically ideal head position which I think is more between 30 and 45 degrees based on our torso/body orientation, and you might actually see some small benefit with out the detractors seen with a helmet. If you recall when BirdMan was conducting wind tunnel testing, there were periods when a balaclava was worn during testing and others when there was not. This data was also taken into consideration as there was a noted difference. This can be seen in some of the stills and in the Video footage when smoke was used. So there is a benefit, albeit a small one."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #32 December 29, 2005 I completely overlooked the fact that by adding a full face helmet which is definately smoother and a more symmetric shape than anyone's head, you are also creating a larger shape and a definately larger entry point. Variable, variables......Ahh......my head hurts!! Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 3 #33 December 29, 2005 hello, In order to make better performing WS, which is the very long process, smooting and cleaning the leading edge is crutial element. Every single time when WS had better ( cleaner ) leading edge testing results were better and better. I don't know what percentage will make you happy, but I am happy by any % of the speed vs.drag I can get. Does the helmet helps?! No! It does not help, It makes the drag higher. Do we need the protection?! Yes, we do!! (at least I know for my self). Now, what to do?! The best is to find compromise between protection needs and performance For those who likes performance flying ( I do ) the full face helmet is the best choice. Which one is the best?! It is very much personal preference. Some people will go for Stinger or any other type of full face, some will go for something else, but, remember that every single change on the leading edge (head is the bigger part) on WS changing the drag as well. For how much, that is another Q. Need to say that more important is the position of the head in performance flying than type of helmet. On relaxing or flocking WS this is really not the issue at all. The best would be to cut the head of!! Believe me performance will rise high!!! Wish to all of you guys on DZ.com forum happy hollidays and great 2oo6. RobibirdRobert Pecnik robert@phoenix-fly.com www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pbla4024 0 #34 December 29, 2005 QuoteThe best would be to cut the head of!! Believe me performance will rise high!!! I think I'll try it. Brain has been always just complication. Fido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #35 February 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe best would be to cut the head of!! Believe me performance will rise high!!! I think I'll try it. Brain has been always just complication. While taking some pics(yes yes on the ground), I noticed what a good example of not having a head this pic would make . Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mfnren 2 #36 February 2, 2006 Do you think that streamlining the head/helmet with the leading edge of the wing would make a significant difference? Maybe some sort of hood that went from mid upper shoulder? 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Airowpoint 0 #30 December 29, 2005 QuoteAccording to (Kyle at el, 1987 “Streamline Your Body and Your Bike”, Bicycling), an aerodynamic helmet does provide a 5.2% aerodynamic advantage and save 47 seconds if travelled 40 km. Aerodynamics helmet is relatively crucial and valuable to an athletes. Since wingsuiters go a lot faster this aerodynamic advantage will be even more (I don't know the definition of aerodynamic advantage though). It might just give you the extra performance to win the Chris Martin Memorial AwardTristan Will you answer "NO" to my next question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #31 December 29, 2005 QuoteSince wingsuiters go a lot faster this aerodynamic advantage will be even more I'd take that % number with a grain of salt as if you do more research you will find the 2% reduction in drag is the low end and based on the results of different studies, is more realistic than any of the higher % numbers listed. In fact, if you read farther down in the article I cited, you will see the bare dummy head offers the least drag/resistance. Obviously hair can create drag, as can a helmet, etc. If a bare dummy head has less drag it would stand to reason that if a tight balaclava type head covering, as worn by some olympic track stars, was worn it would closely approximate a bare dummy head as it would remove the drag created by hair,ears, etc and present a more aerodynamic effcient profile especially if high tech materials were used.Combine that with the aerodynamically ideal head position which I think is more between 30 and 45 degrees based on our torso/body orientation, and you might actually see some small benefit with out the detractors seen with a helmet. If you recall when BirdMan was conducting wind tunnel testing, there were periods when a balaclava was worn during testing and others when there was not. This data was also taken into consideration as there was a noted difference. This can be seen in some of the stills and in the Video footage when smoke was used. So there is a benefit, albeit a small one."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #32 December 29, 2005 I completely overlooked the fact that by adding a full face helmet which is definately smoother and a more symmetric shape than anyone's head, you are also creating a larger shape and a definately larger entry point. Variable, variables......Ahh......my head hurts!! Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 3 #33 December 29, 2005 hello, In order to make better performing WS, which is the very long process, smooting and cleaning the leading edge is crutial element. Every single time when WS had better ( cleaner ) leading edge testing results were better and better. I don't know what percentage will make you happy, but I am happy by any % of the speed vs.drag I can get. Does the helmet helps?! No! It does not help, It makes the drag higher. Do we need the protection?! Yes, we do!! (at least I know for my self). Now, what to do?! The best is to find compromise between protection needs and performance For those who likes performance flying ( I do ) the full face helmet is the best choice. Which one is the best?! It is very much personal preference. Some people will go for Stinger or any other type of full face, some will go for something else, but, remember that every single change on the leading edge (head is the bigger part) on WS changing the drag as well. For how much, that is another Q. Need to say that more important is the position of the head in performance flying than type of helmet. On relaxing or flocking WS this is really not the issue at all. The best would be to cut the head of!! Believe me performance will rise high!!! Wish to all of you guys on DZ.com forum happy hollidays and great 2oo6. RobibirdRobert Pecnik robert@phoenix-fly.com www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbla4024 0 #34 December 29, 2005 QuoteThe best would be to cut the head of!! Believe me performance will rise high!!! I think I'll try it. Brain has been always just complication. Fido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #35 February 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe best would be to cut the head of!! Believe me performance will rise high!!! I think I'll try it. Brain has been always just complication. While taking some pics(yes yes on the ground), I noticed what a good example of not having a head this pic would make . Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mfnren 2 #36 February 2, 2006 Do you think that streamlining the head/helmet with the leading edge of the wing would make a significant difference? Maybe some sort of hood that went from mid upper shoulder? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
