n23x 0 #1 January 24, 2006 Hey Guys (and Gals), Got a quick question about wingsuit flight (not there yet, but it is an upcoming goal). Are there currently any devices that give you real-time feedback regarding your fallrate and/or forward speed? I'm thinking along the lines of a device that is worn like an audible, but produces a tone that changes as your fallrate increases or decreases, allowing you more feedback and input on fallrate. Does such a thing exist? Is such a thing necessary, or can you just "feel" it? As an aside, I'm not talking about freefall computers that let you dump the jump data afterwards. Also, I'm not really referencing the HUD that alit2 has coming out: I'm looking for good feedback with minimal visible distraction. Thoughts? Ideas? Thanks! .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #2 January 24, 2006 QuoteI'm thinking along the lines of a device that is worn like an audible, but produces a tone that changes as your fallrate increases or decreases, allowing you more feedback and input on fallrate. Sounds like your talking about a heart rate monitor. With the right programing the Titan from Alti-2 would be capable of doing that as well as give a visual. On a side note, there is another emerging technology that could utilize the Titan to make wingsuit competitions in the sky feasible. (see attached)"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #3 January 24, 2006 Yah, BillVon directed me towards the Titan. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of something audible, rather than visual display. QuoteOn a side note, there is another emerging technology that could utilize the Titan to make wingsuit competitions in the sky feasible. (see attached) Funny enough, I was thinking the exact same thing for wingsuits and HUD when I saw the EZrocket racing. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #4 January 24, 2006 Quote Are there currently any devices that give you real-time feedback regarding your fallrate and/or forward speed? No. Quote or can you just "feel" it? Yes."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plutoniumsalmon 0 #5 January 24, 2006 Dont paragliders and hang gliders use something like this to tell them when they are going up as a result of thermals. Maybe that could be a good place to start looking.Pointy birds Oh pointy pointy Anoint my head Anointy nointy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #6 January 24, 2006 Good call, I will check them out. I thought most of them were pretty damn big though (like the size of a DVD case). added in: I just checked out a bunch of different varios, and it appears that they are all limited to about 1-2000 ft/minute... Probably not within present wingsuit speeds I'd imagine, and even if so, the resolution wouldn't be good enough for us to notice? Oh well. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #7 January 24, 2006 QuoteI thought most of them were pretty damn big though As big as a personal hand held GPS system and expensive."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 1 #8 January 24, 2006 QuoteAre there currently any devices that give you real-time feedback regarding your fallrate and/or forward speed? Perhaps it would be possible to use the realtime NMEA/GARMIN output of a GPS. Have a small device which can talk these protocols and generate a tone (or beeps) based on the forward speed, descent rate (and thus glide ratio). I think it would actually not be that difficult using a PDA that has a serial interface and a sound line-out for earphones. The GPS can be mounted where it has a good view of the sky. The PDA can be whever you want. I'm not sure how the Bluetooth GPS receivers work (as in protocols - are they proprietary?), but that would cut down on the number of wires. You'd only need one for the earphones. Unfortunately my C programming skills are not up to undertaking such a project, and neither do I have a PDA or BlueTooth GPS reciever to play around with. The only problem is that the GPS data does not get updated very frequently; my ForeTrex 201 does max once per second track logging. Some interpolation would be needed to generate smooth data. Cheers, Costyn.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclecharlie95 3 #9 January 24, 2006 I know the guys who developed the CamEye were playing with audibles that indicated freefall speed using sound with the idea of helping RW flyers tune their fall rates, this was a few years ago though... An alternative is to wrist mount a small GPS unit and check it like an alti in ff.BASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #10 January 24, 2006 QuoteThe PDA can be whever you want. I'm not sure how the Bluetooth GPS receivers work (as in protocols - are they proprietary?), but that would cut down on the number of wires. You'd only need one for the earphones. While it sounds real sexy and all, the Bluetooth GPS receivers are crap performance wise for doing what you are describing.Kevin used the set up you just described for his project, I'm sure he could list all of the shortcomings as well. The closest thing thats off the shelf that might be able to be hacked and made to specifically do this task, is a heart rate monitor. With some creative programming and a wire job to move the speaker to the users ear, it might work. The same could probably be applied to any of the watches out there that already have altitude alarms. The hard part IMO, is the software programming skills, if you don't already have them."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 1 #11 January 24, 2006 QuoteAn alternative is to wrist mount a small GPS unit and check it like an alti in ff. I've tried this and it's kind of a pain. My ForeTrex 201 does not fit comfortably on my wrist with the zippers from the armwings and it is mounted lengthwise on the strap, so it hinders the movement of my wrist (which is strange, cause thats where they designed it to go). Other places I have tried to mount it was on my main lift webbing, but there it was slightly too close to my face to read comfortably, and coverage was kind of spotty (if I look at the tracklog). I've also tried on my chest strap, but here coverage was really crappy for tracklog purposes. I now have a mount on my helmet (the GPS is in the green/black pouch) which works perfectly when I want tracking data for post-flight data analysis. Unfortunately you cannot read the display there. QuoteWhile it sounds real sexy and all, the Bluetooth GPS receivers are crap performance wise for doing what you are describing.Kevin used the set up you just described for his project, I'm sure he could list all of the shortcomings as well. The closest thing thats off the shelf that might be able to be hacked and made to specifically do this task, is a heart rate monitor. With some creative programming and a wire job to move the speaker to the users ear, it might work. The same could probably be applied to any of the watches out there that already have altitude alarms. The hard part IMO, is the software programming skills, if you don't already have them. Ok, I thought as much about the BlueTooth recievers. Seemed like too good to be true. But what about a real GPS unit with NMEA output fed to a PDA? Programming skills... well, I know a few people who do have the skills to pull something like this off, but I'm trying to figure out if the hardware setup is feasible. How do these heartrate monitors work? Do they give a tone for when you are in a correct range of heartrate during a workout? Cheers, Costyn.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #12 January 24, 2006 QuoteHow do these heartrate monitors work? Do they give a tone for when you are in a correct range of heartrate during a workout? Exactly. Once you determine your targeted heart rate zone, if you go above or below it an alarm will sound letting you know to pick up or slow down the pace. A heart rate monitor consists of a watch-like receiver worn on your wrist and a transmitter that you wear around your chest, comfortably against your skin. The transmitter picks up the signals of your heart, and sends them wirelessly to the watch. Since some models have barometers on them already I would think it would be easy for a programmer type to modify the code to accomodate an audible tone if the desired altitude or fall rate was not being acheived. Unfortunatly there is going to have to be some wires involved as currently, it is not possible to transfer files from Polar S-Series receivers (S610, S610i, S710, S710i, S720i or S810) to a PDA or portable PC. While the Polar S-Series utilizes IrDA technology, it is not capable of interfacing with the portable systems. Using the heart rate monitor theme, an industrious individual might be able to modify/build a unit capable of giving an audible alarm to the wearer if flight parameters were not being met. However, marrying all these technologies together may be more time and effort than it's worth in the long run."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #13 January 24, 2006 I think GPS is an overshoot. It could be done with a hardware hacked Pro-Ditter..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #14 January 24, 2006 QuoteI think GPS is an overshoot. It could be done with a hardware hacked Pro-Ditter..... I believe you are quite correct. There are plenty of existing technologies out there that could be hacked/modified to do this. The hard part is making them all play together. Seeing how there is already a system that ties this and a lot of other systems together being developed in the Titan, this type of project might fall into the "tinker" catergory for the average joe."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
laraatalti2 0 #15 January 24, 2006 Hi Jim, The Altimaster Titan is not just the heads up display, but the whole system. You could choose to get the Titan Core + GPS + audible and program it to do exactly what you are asking for. You can even adjust what tone you hear and what data it's communicating to you. Right now, we are focusing on the HUD (SportVue) as the first Titan peripheral to be released, but it's definitely not all there is to the Titan! Feel free to contact us with any questions or suggestions. ~Lara Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Professor 0 #16 January 25, 2006 So, is the GPS portion of it going to be an alti2 only gps, or can I hook it up to a gps I already own (like a Garmin Vista C)? Ted Like a giddy school girl. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #17 January 25, 2006 A digital barometric altimeter and a windspeed-o-meter would do the trick with some microcontroller. So you need a pilot tube mounted somewhere :). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #18 January 28, 2006 QuoteSo, is the GPS portion of it going to be an alti2 only gps, No, Alti-2's Titan will not use a proprietary GPS receiver. Development is underway to make it as model friendly as possible so that one can use their own existing receiver."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #19 January 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo, is the GPS portion of it going to be an alti2 only gps, No, Alti-2's Titan will not use a proprietary GPS receiver. Development is underway to make it as model friendly as possible so that one can use their own existing receiver. Will they also package with a GPS for folks who don't already have one, or would rather have the integrated package all from one source? I've got an Etrex Vista, but if the Titan was available with built in GPS in a smaller, more convenient, or better integrated package, I'd definitely be considering it.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #20 January 28, 2006 QuoteWill they also package with a GPS for folks who don't already have one, or would rather have the integrated package all from one source? Alti-2 will leave the GPS receiver business to the existing companies and try to make it so that all if not most of the the skydiver friendly receivers are capable of interfacing with the Titan. A list of compatable receivers will eventually be released. If Alti bundled the pieces together it might be conveinent for some but in the end, I think it would also be more expensive than if one were to buy just the Titan and then the GPS receiver of their choice elsewhere. That's some thing thats being worked out but I highly doubt you will see Alti 2 selling GPS receivers."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
