LouDiamond 1 #26 April 16, 2006 QuoteI'm wondering if my deflectors are doing me any good at all. I have the same type of deflectors on my suit.I usually form them with my fingers if my suit has been in my gear bag to give them shape as the material is stiff and will hold a shape. When I punch it out and roll my elbows forward more I can watch the ones that aren't fully formed open up more.As for them working, ask Jari, he has several pictures from the wind tunnel testing where you can see smoke trails moving over the top of the wing on suits with and without deflectors."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airowpoint 0 #27 April 17, 2006 I was also having one of my more brilliant ideas. What if you remove some of the stitching on the S3 front deflectors so you are combining two of the smaller arcs into one bigger arc. You will end up with 4 big arcs (and a small bit) instead of 9 small arcs. They will then look like the S3S front deflectors which apparently are better...Tristan Will you answer "NO" to my next question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #28 April 17, 2006 The new S3s has different/stiffer material that is probally more apt to be th reason for the improved performance in that area.....Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #29 April 17, 2006 QuoteI was also having one of my more brilliant ideas. What if you remove some of the stitching on the S3 front deflectors so you are combining two of the smaller arcs into one bigger arc. You will end up with 4 big arcs (and a small bit) instead of 9 small arcs. They will then look like the S3S front deflectors which apparently are better... I think the old smaller deflectors (shouldnt they be called 'attachers', as they seem to attach wind to the wing, rather then deflecting it?) tend to just be blown flat onto the wing. The newer deflectors have a stifner in them that makes sure they stay open. If you could find a way to also keep them open? There's no rigging like home rigging JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #30 April 17, 2006 maybe flexible PVC pipes?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 3 #31 April 17, 2006 completly wrong Jarno lower pressure is on the upper part of the wing, and nothing but this will keep the deflector open. Same principle apply to any type of any deflector or air inlet on WS. The only thing which may keep the deflector or air inlet closed or out of function is the improper position, wrong size, wrong shape or wrong material.Robert Pecnik robert@phoenix-fly.com www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #32 April 17, 2006 Quotecompletly wrong Jarno lower pressure is on the upper part of the wing, and nothing but this will keep the deflector open. Same principle apply to any type of any deflector or air inlet on WS. The only thing which may keep the deflector or air inlet closed or out of function is the improper position, wrong size, wrong shape or wrong material. Tristan was commenting earlyer on his inlets/deflectors being closed/shut...it was just my redneck guestemate as to why It not something I've seen upclose.. I think thats the reason why you are designing good wingsuits and and both Tristan and I are not (and shouldnt)JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bert_man 0 #33 April 18, 2006 Just a question for robi or anyone else: Deflectors are intended to create a turbulent flow that will stick to the wing longer, resulting in the separation point being closer to the tail. This results in more lift. However, in doing so, it converts the laminar (smooth) flow to a turbulent one, which produces less lift. But it sticks to the wing longer, which is good. By adding deflectors, you are sacrificing that efficient, laminar flow for a "more sticky", but less efficient, turbulent flow. How do you know when that trade-off becomes worth sacrificing the laminar flow? Or is the flow always going to be turbulent due to the fact that wingsuits typically aren't very smooth surfaces? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #34 April 18, 2006 it's not quite that simple I think you are confusing laminar vs. turbulent flow with boundary layer seperation. The flow will be laminar or turbulent based on the reynolds number. This mostly relates to the 'speed' of the flow. Boundary layer seperation is dependant on surface roughness (which is why golf balls have dimples, it makes them fly further), so by increasing surface roughness you will delay the onset of boundary layer seperation. you will however be increasing the drag due to skin friction, but you can decrease the form drag by keeping the boundary layer attached for longer along your surface. All of this happens with turbulent flow, though. Laminar flow only occurs at really low Reynolds numbers and is not all that common in nature. This is also why sharks have skin as rough as sandpaper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 3 #35 April 18, 2006 ____________________________________________________ By adding deflectors, you are sacrificing that efficient, laminar flow for a "more sticky", but less efficient, turbulent flow. How do you know when that trade-off becomes worth sacrificing the laminar flow? Or is the flow always going to be turbulent due to the fact that wingsuits typically aren't very smooth surfaces? ___________________________________________________ in short Can you see the deflector on V1?! Regards RoBiRobert Pecnik robert@phoenix-fly.com www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airowpoint 0 #36 April 18, 2006 Everyone! Lets rip the deflectors of our S3 and S3S's!!! Seriously, the first one to do it and post a picture gets a crate of beer from me!Tristan Will you answer "NO" to my next question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bert_man 0 #37 April 18, 2006 Quote Boundary layer seperation is dependant on surface roughness (which is why golf balls have dimples, it makes them fly further), so by increasing surface roughness you will delay the onset of boundary layer seperation. you will however be increasing the drag due to skin friction, but you can decrease the form drag by keeping the boundary layer attached for longer along your surface. I see, so maybe laminar flow has nothing to do with it and i'm really talking about the boundary layer separation. You mentioned that an increase in surface roughness delays boundary layer separation. Is this due to the fact that a rough surface creates more turbulence in the boundary layer, hence having a similar effect as the deflectors? Or is it something else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
